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Aug 8, 2024
A Numbers Game | August 8, 2024 | Hour 2
A Numbers Game | August 8, 2024 | Hour 2
00:00
44:40
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Transcript
0:00
[electronic music] The numbers told the story, they always do. He's one of those idiots who believe in analytics. This is a Numbers Game with Gil Alexander on VSiN.
0:08
Hour number two of a Numbers Game at VSiN, the e-sports betting network, vsin.com. Game Plus got your home guy, uh, Matt Bokalter on there from, uh, Toronto.
0:17
iHeartRadio, YouTube TV, however you're taking us in, we appreciate it. Thank you, Game Plus, by the way. We love Canada.
0:22
Game Plus goes down, uh, through New York as well, so a lot of folks in New York City see us on, uh, Game Plus. Uh, Wyatt Tomchek in for the vacationing Kelly Bidlin. Kelly will be back next week.
0:33
We get tweets of beating the book, always appreciate the, uh, feedback from folks. Uh, best listeners in the game.
0:39
This is from Russell Smith, "Played your tennis straight and took a shot," [laughs] oh no, he parlayed a few of these. "Took a shot with, uh, Stearns, Bolter, and Uchijima," or does that say 100?
0:51
That can't be 120 to one. Maybe he means 12 to one on that. I think he means 12 to one. To win, uh, oh no, then he added, well, okay, maybe it is, uh, maybe it is 120 to one, 'cause he added Vlad, Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
1:01
to hit a home run today. He has four lifetime versus Dean Kramer. How dare you fade the great Dean Kramer, who's on the Leaflet.
1:10
Uh, GV, at New Jersey, New York, "Braves only being up a half a game above the Mets," as you were talking about, "and as a result barely in the playoffs, is up there in terms of, uh, which of those standing scenarios is the nuttiest to you.
1:23
Uh, as someone who watches the Phillies every night, yeah, can't believe this team is still top of MLB in win percentage. You wouldn't think that after the last month."
1:31
That's what I was trying to get at, uh, GV, which is I, I think a lot of that, if you glance at the MLB standings right now, the baseball standings, there's so much there that it's like, wow, that team is still there, or that team is that close to the other, because it is a complete log jam.
1:46
It is just a scrum of teams this year, both American League and National League, and again, we ought to be betting accordingly. Uh, this is from, let's see, do, do, do, Teddy Rack.
1:57
"I add three years to my l- uh, to my VSiN subscription, and the next day I get Joe Fortenbaugh on ANG." Um, I don't know what that means. Uh, let's see.
2:09
Ch- oh, Chris Heath, uh, "Truly getting old with a Bill Romanowski phone dial b- oh, did Fortenbaugh hit his phone with a cheap-" Yeah, it- He did it. Yeah... kind of startled us. I thought you heard it too.
2:19
I did, at one point. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, Joe, Joe used to be famous for the quick dial tone at the end of the interview. He would, that was his thing.
2:25
Like, if you, you'd sign up Joe, he would try to get the dial tone in there- [laughs]... before you got off. That was his gig. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, it's Thursday, it's 11:00 AM Eastern, 8:00 AM Pacific.
2:33
You know what that means. Unscripted with the crack man, Bill Krackenberg. [upbeat music] Billy. Hey. What's happening?
2:50
Bet Bash week, thank you for making time for me. Come on, man. [laughs] This guy. Uh, you know, everybody's kind enough. I, I'm super grateful every Bet Bash week. Aren't, people are so nice. People are so nice.
3:01
When we were at the South Point, they used to roll down there. Oh, yeah. This is much easier, 'cause it's just down the street, right? Yes. Yep. So I'm, I'm super grateful.
3:08
But, but come on, man, you think we're gonna bump in you for Bet Bash? [laughs] Yes. [laughs] Yes, he says- Um- "Yes, I do think they're gonna do it"... I ran into Gil yesterday.
3:15
He was like, "I don't know," I was, like, locked out of his car or something. They wouldn't let him leave or something. What happened? So, so give me the real e- explanation.
3:21
I was, I was walking through, um, I went over to, uh, Circa- Yeah... to put, uh, my, my buddy was gonna put some, uh, entries in for the contest and, uh, on his proxy. And, um,
3:32
you were, I, I thought they didn't let you in. No, no, no. But they, they didn't, they wouldn't let you out. Well, neither. It's a- it's actually my fault. Okay. So I ha- I had a meeting at Circa- Okay... after the show.
3:42
All right. So I go over there, and I realize I haven't been at Circa in so long, which is just down the street, that my card, we have a secret bat cave parking lot. Okay.
3:50
My card was deactivated 'cause I hadn't been there in so long. Oh, oh, okay. So, so on the way out, uh, Bill Ady, Miles, Gwyn, they were all kind enough.
3:58
They're like, "Oh, we'll react- we'll, do your thing, we'll reactivate your car." But me, stupid me, I forgot that there was one more door I had to go through.
4:06
So I gave them my card before I had to get through that final door, and so security was like, "Hey, we'll just have to figure out when you get your card back." So I was, like, there for, and you and Alan Boston roll up.
4:15
Yeah. And, uh, by the way, one of those two people recognized me, and I'll give you a guess as to who that one that d- wasn't was. But you and Alan Boston roll up.
4:22
[laughs] And I'm just sitting there, I'm like, "Yeah, just trying to get to my car." But it was my fault. Yeah, no, I took Alan, uh, to breakfast at- Yeah... there's a, there's a place he, he showed me.
4:31
This guy used to cook for Elvis, and he has- Oh, wow... a restaurant called Norman's Diner on Durango. It's, like, Durango and Spring Mountain area. But, um, it's great.
4:40
He has the gre- the, the best eggs benedict in the world. He's known for it, too. Is the guy who used to cook for Elvis still there? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Norm. Yeah. Norm is still there. Norm is still there.
4:48
And I like to eat anyone named Norm. Like, i- if you're like, uh, Norm, uh, Abe- Abe... I, yeah, I like the, yeah. I'm, I'm- You're a big, you're a big fan... yeah, Moishe. [laughs] I'm good. Moishe.
4:57
[laughs] Yeah, I'm, I'm eating there. Yeah. Moishe. [laughs] Um, n- no, I, oh, by the way, there's a pla- there's a place over there called, it's on S- uh, it's called Abel's Bagels, by the way. Oh, Abel's Bagels.
5:07
You heard of it? Yes, oh. Oh, my God. Abel's Bagels. They, they are some of the, they're the b- some of the best bagels I, I've had in, you know, definitely in the town. How could you go wrong? Yeah.
5:15
No, I just, uh, great, great pl- but you know, pe- I came in here this morning, I don't know what's gonna, gonna, what you're gonna roll up on. These guys had- [laughs]...
5:22
these guys had VSiN tee- did you see the guys that were here? Yeah. They have VSiN T-shirts on. VSiN T-shirts, yeah. What good guys. One was from, um, Ohio. I used to fly into Columbus, Ohio all the time.
5:32
He's from Columbus, Ohio. I get, people are surprised to hear that. Like, my dad was b- my dad was born on a farm. My dad was a farmer. Mm-hmm. Um, not him, but his p- his parents, my grandparents.
5:41
And, um, they were country people, so they were on the Southeastern Ohio, which some- a place that I thought nobody ever heard of, Meigs County, like Pomeroy on the river, um, and, um, you know where else?
5:51
Uh, my, all my family works in Athens at Ohio University, and where Burrow was from, that area. Mm-hmm. Joe Burrow. Um, so they're all proud of him, of course.
5:59
That's a big thing for e- and football was everything, by the way.
6:02
When I was, used to go to Ohio for the summers, I used to go for the county fairs and the state fair, truck pull, tractor pull, um, some entertainment, but- Football games on Saturday, high school football games, my uncles and their chil- that was everything to them.
6:15
Like, everything was based around those football games. Yeah. So football was so big, so that's why Burrow's a big deal to my cousins and stuff.
6:22
And he, he's a big deal anyways, a great player, so, um, but it's nice to see the people c- uh, so nice and- Oh... it's humbling. It's like, wow, I'm just a- It's, it's awesome. Yeah.
6:31
I was at, uh, Circa last night at the, uh, Legacy Club, um, which is- How, how was that? Which is where Bet Bash sort of ends every night- Okay... at, at the Legacy Club upstairs.
6:39
And yeah, it's just great to see everybody, great to, uh, to talk to everybody.
6:43
F- you know, people that you have seen recently, people that you haven't, and then people who come up to you from, you know, seven, eight years ago, they're like, "Yeah." Right. "It'll be great to see you again."
6:51
And you're like, "I, I don't remember." Uh, but you tr- y- you know, you, you try to be nice as you can be. But, but also, but also nice, right? Yeah. Real nice, real, real nice people. Yep.
7:01
Um, you know, everyone's been asking me things, man, about I, I haven't... You, you were off last week, so I wasn't, wasn't here last week. Yes, sir.
7:08
So of course people have been asking me, and my number one thing here is about the, um, the DK tax and the Caesars guy. Yes. The Caesars guy with the 500,000 that said he won f- half a million. Oh, yeah.
7:20
Well, 300 and something thousand. Yes. I reached out. Let's, let's start with him. I haven't talked about that yet, yeah. I, I reached out to him. Okay. I, I, I texted him.
7:26
So, so explain to people what you're talking about. Yeah. There's a guy on Twitter who posted a video. Yeah. He claims to have won $500,000 on a bet. Yeah. I mean, it was a Celtics bet, was it? Uh, uh, Celtics future.
7:36
Yeah. Close to that anyway. And- Like, like, like 400,000 or something like that... and he's being escorted out of a casino. Yeah. Okay. Escorted out a casino.
7:44
So I reached out to him 'cause he's like, "Man, I want my money. I want my, my, my, my money." And he- trust me, lots of, it's millions of m- it got over a million views. People have know about this. Yeah.
7:54
And as much as we are against Caesars right now for- Yeah... me for throwing me out for having a pulse for bleeding red- Yeah... and you for- [laughs]...
8:01
the different things that hap- oh, no Well, mine was the, uh, my latest one was the NBA draft when they switched the odds right in front of me. Yeah. Yeah. No, they, they, they're, they're... Listen- Yeah...
8:09
let me just be blunt. I would love to throw them under a bus and go after them. In this situation, as of right now, I can't, and I'm, I'm always fair to both. Yes. I even said, "Hi," I, I, um, I do multiples.
8:22
I, I'll know, if you don't want me to repeat it, I will not say it. Uh, not a fan of Caesars currently because they limited me because of previous wins. And he, he said, "What's up, brother?" Yeah.
8:33
And then he never got back to me. There's much more to this story. Uh-huh. There's much more to this story. Uh, supposedly he said on, on, uh, maybe some of our listeners can, uh, c- correspond here.
8:46
Supposedly he said, "Well, my bookie bet it for me," and that's like the worst thing you could say is your bookie- It is... someone else bet it for you.
8:52
Proxy betting, um, here in the u- here in, uh, Las Vegas would be legal if you'd go through the proper cha- proper channels, but there it's not legal the way it went down in, um, North Carolina or South Carolina?
9:05
North Caro- North Carolina. So, uh, they're not giving him his, his winnings. But by the way, they're not giving him his post-up. So if you're posting up, you know, I, I don't know, uh, what the post-up was, 3, 400,000,
9:19
did not give him the post-up money or the winnings. So that, that's, that's the big story here- Wow...
9:24
is, um, they're just, uh, doing a full-scale investigation, and that's probably just a way of trying to rob the guy's post-up money, um, using some loopholes or, or law things.
9:34
I mean, honestly, it's not worth the, the guy... By the way, by the way, Caesars used it on their socials. "Oh, big winner won-" Yeah... "Caesars thing." It was all over their so- so they used it to advertise with.
9:45
Honestly, even though the guy didn't get back to me, even though there's more to the story, pay the guy his money. It, it, look what, look what it's d- it's done more damage to you guys.
9:55
It's making me bring up old tweets. Like last night I brought up an old tweet of your -120 on juice for NFL future, the future games. Look ahead weeks, -120. Nobody does that.
10:06
G- you can bet at DraftKings 110, you can bet at, uh, Westgate, I can keep on going, -110. Caesars charges 120. Real nice of you.
10:14
So in other words, what I'm saying is they tr- they, they, they treat you like a sucker in so many different ways. I probably wouldn't have retweeted that last night if I didn't know about this situation.
10:25
I probably wouldn't have re- retweeted that and, oh, I o- only got... Here, I didn't even, I haven't even checked. I said, "Everyone else won 10 Caesars, this F-ing NFL." So I'm sorry, that's, uh, what I put. Um,
10:36
last night, 62,000 views, 263 likes. You wouldn't have got that bad press. J- pa- and that's only me, little me. I don't really get to call myself little much, but little me. So, uh, but, but n- listen, think about that.
10:48
So now that's just me. I've seen multiple other people going after you guys. I mean, is it worth that much money to you that you wanna steal the guy's money? Well, y- y- you know what? I will, I will sort of answer.
10:58
I, I think none of these scenarios are good for the books in the end, and in the end I don't think they care. That's interesting. I, I- I don't think Caesars cares. The management, they just don't care.
11:06
They know they get all the volume anyway. That's right. That's right. Very good point. It's the line from the Bronx tale, nobody cares. [laughs] Nobody cares. No, nobody cares. No, very good line.
11:14
And, and listen, I'm not saying that- I, I mean- I, I'm not fully taking the, the, the guy's side because whoever bet the ticket has to claim the ticket. Yeah. Give your ID, you bet it, you claim the ticket.
11:24
I mean, and the, and the s- and the part about the post-up, obviously you, you, you know, give him back his post-up when this is all, you know, figured out. But
11:34
I, yeah, I just w- I had a spider sense about the video too, I guess, is what I'm saying. But I was like, "I don't know. There's, there's gotta be a story here that we're not hearing." Um- There i- there is. Yeah.
11:43
There is. And obviously there is. We'll talk about the DK tax, uh, which I'm sure Bill has a word or two to say about. That's next. Numbers Game, VSiN, the sports betting network.
11:51
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12:09
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12:21
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12:55
Gil Alexander, Wyatt Tomcheck in for Kelly Bidlin live from Bar Canada at the D here in downtown Las Vegas, and of course, unscripted with the Crack Man, Bill Krackomberger, @BillKrackMan with a K on Twitter, and of course, uh, co-host with John Orlando, Wise Cracks, the name of his podcast.
13:10
Bill, uh, this is our buddy, Captain Jack, who I call the commissioner of sports betting. He was in here this week, kind enough to roll over as well.
13:17
This is when the, uh, the news about the DraftKings surcharge came out. He said, "If you bet," he, he tweeted this, "if you bet in Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania, or Vermont, get a load of this.
13:26
DraftKings will be adding a surcharge to be subtracted from your net winnings to pay for their tax on gambling revenue, the money they make from losing bettors. Wow, just wow."
13:37
So my thing is, they, they could have done this... Oh, I think Jack said this on the show. They could have done this so differently. Yes. They could have hid this in with their, uh, most popular
13:48
sucker bets, let's be honest, the same-game parlays, whatever it may be. Yeah.
13:52
Um, they, they just did it so publicly, and so I like what he said, it's like th- they're really arrogant the way they did this, the way they, they came across like this.
14:00
And, uh, and, uh, Jack said something in a different tweet, like how, how arrogant, um, one, one of the guys is there and the, the, the guy that runs the place.
14:07
Um, so w- they have, like, one of the biggest, if not the biggest market share, de- depending on the market. So it just doesn't make any sense to me how they're passing this along. They're making so much money.
14:20
I mean, don't pay one of your celebrities, uh, two million, uh, instead of that for the, for the month. I mean, you know, to, to, to, to, to, to quote, you know, uh, to have you guys out there. Now, I will tell you,
14:32
in these states, like, let's use New York. New York, it's, it's over 50% tax. Is that, I think that's right, correct. Over- 50, 51%. 51. Okay. Yeah.
14:41
51% tax, so but yet New York is the sports betting capital of the United States. They do double the volume of Nevada. Double, that's right. New York, double, that, that's the sports betting capital.
14:53
So that means they're making double the money. Or, or, or am I wrong? Maybe you, someone else can help me out there. In other words, let's say they make a, a, a billion dollars. Well, let's use a real number.
15:04
Let's say they make a million dollars, which we know they don't, it's more than that, a million dollars in a month, whereas Vegas makes half a million in a month. Yeah. Well, they're making double the money.
15:13
I understand they're giving half a million away in taxes, but they're still making that half a million dollars.
15:17
So there's still ch- revenue, they're still generating that, that revenue in that, in that state where they're making... It's one of the biggest states they have, if not the biggest, even after the tax.
15:27
Why pass along more money? Are people that stupid? Are people gonna go there and pay a- and, and for every $100 only get back 96, $96 and change, and say, "Ah, it doesn't matter. I, I, I love DraftKings.
15:40
I like the color, I like the marketing, I like the site." Are they gonna, or are they gonna play on FanDuel or one of the other sites?
15:45
Well, so I think w- to answer that question, I do think the fact that it's there in front of you, that it's not built into a same-game parlay, that it's there in front of you to see, "Oh, I should have made $10 on my $10 even money bet, but instead I'm making $9.68," or whatever it is, right?
16:03
That, that, that ought to, even the most basic person would, should o- should be like, "Well, I'm not betting here anymore," right?
16:10
But I think there's a lot of things going on, and I, I tried in this week to sort of, you know, get beyond... 'Cause, 'cause you're right about the, the, the awkwardness.
16:20
I mean, could you, could you want a guy that, you know, he's the face of the company, right? Jason Robins.
16:25
I, I can't imagine that you would want some, a- anyone worse than that to be the face of such a big company in terms of what he says out loud, right?
16:35
Because he seems to be someone that is just learning the industry as he goes, um, makes a lot of gaffes. This is not his first, right? No. Says, has, has- He's said things before... he's said things before.
16:49
He's made m- he has said the quiet part out loud many times before this, and yet, because
16:57
betting is so Teflon, because it is so, uh, you know, just part of our DNA, that no matter how many mistakes he makes, he can overcome those blunders and always will. Now, the bigger part of that is,
17:14
would DraftKings have done this, and time will tell now, would DraftKings have done this if they didn't know that somebody else was do- was gonna do this too? Yeah, well, th- they should've- And so-...
17:24
waited for them to announce it then instead of being the one that's picked on.
17:27
Well, or, or they already, or they already took the temperature of the room, and that then we're gonna find out very soon that another one of these big operators is gonna do it, too.
17:37
And I'm just saying this could only, it, it could, it could start to manifest as the norm more than the exception.
17:46
Or it goes the other way and it never sees the light of day, but I'm saying there's a world here where this, this is going to be our new reality. And you know, I, I, and I don't mean to pick on them. Not for everybody.
17:56
Yeah. Circle, Circle won't do it, for instance, right? Yeah. Right, right, of course. Right. I, um, um, the DraftKings is very good to me at the counter.
18:02
I, I, I have bag fulls of tickets, uh, literally this season already pending i- i- in my safe deposit box. I have tons of tickets, so I am, uh- You know, all in, uh, what the, you know, what DraftKings on, on...
18:15
When I go to pr- in person at the counter, I know they don't want bets on the, on the app from anyone with a pulse, but, you know, they do want, they do take counter bets. So I, I do like that.
18:24
I just think this is a bad, uh, the way they went about this was terrible. And, uh, they're, you know, the... And you're right. You know, Jason has said things before.
18:32
You know, we don't, "Oh yeah, I don't want anyone in here that wins." Yes. He said it out loud. That insults, that insults Joe Public, because it said, we, that makes him think, "Well, y- I can bet though?
18:42
Oh, I must be an idiot. I must be a sucker." Like, there's no thought. You know, a lot of people that are very wealthy in this world are wealthy from certain things n- nothing to do with anything public.
18:54
Their social skills are absolutely terrible. Even in our space, we have guys that the social skills- Oh my God...
19:01
it, it's almost like Ralph Kramden on The Honeymooners when they, they, he was always opening his mouth and talking about things behind, and then all of a sudden, bang, they put the camera on him on the one episode, and he freezes.
19:12
That's the same, because it, the social skills, uh, of, of certain people and, and, yeah, he's, he has said some things he definitely... I don't even know. Maybe he's arrogant enough, he doesn't regret it.
19:22
But he, he said some things that he must have been like, "Oh God, what did I say there? Is that gonna cost us parking chairs?" Well, or, or- "Is that gonna co-...
19:28
or he's what I'm saying, which is he's like- Doesn't care... "Oh, well, I'll just-" Doesn't care. "... I'll just move on." Nothing, nothing- Yeah... seems to stop him.
19:34
To me, there's a more, and I don't know how, you know, macro I want to get on this, but there's a more, uh, you know, nefarious part of this to me, which is, you know, basically what you're doing, I said this to Jack also when he was on.
19:45
You wanna phase out... You're, you're basically, the net effect of this is you're gonna phase out the hobbyist, right? The sh- the sharp bettor. Very good.
19:53
Um, and you're gonna prey on the addict who just will do it no matter what. Um, make it irrationally and prohibitively expensive. So, and, and by the way, there's precedent here.
20:04
What I'm getting at is, like, who, who still smokes, right? Let's, uh, who still smokes? Very good. People who can't stop. Everyone else did the math and moved on from smoking, right?
20:15
But the people who can't stop are still doing it.
20:16
And I do think there's a, you know, the, the ultimate effect of this is you're also going to bring back, and I, I spoke with Jack about this, is you're gonna, y- the ultimate effect is the very thing you're trying to eradicate, illegal bookmakers, right?
20:29
Illegal offshore, local bookies. Sure. Right? The very thing that they, you know, very proudly talked about, "This, the regulation of sports betting, we'll get rid of."
20:38
Y- every move that is made, and this, by the way, this starts above the operator's head, right?
20:43
This is about the taxes, and then the operator, obviously, the way that they're handling this by passing it on to the customer and the way they're doing it is, is awful, but it does start with the, uh, the egregious taxing.
20:52
Um, now you're just leaving the door, I mean, that's, that's a- You're sending people back offshore. That's the point.
20:57
Offshores- You're sending people back to the, to the local bar, you know, barber shop, the local bar- Oh, that's right... the local pool hall. That's exactly right. You're sending people back.
21:04
You're actually doing the opposite of what you should be doing. Yes. You're actually, instead of taking that portion of the business, and it's not just him. It's not just that company. It's other companies, too.
21:13
The way they treat people, the payouts, so, payouts take so long in certain jurisdictions. We know here, as you love, I love to use your line, "We're too close to the sun." Yeah.
21:21
Here in Vegas, we just go to the counter right behind us. "I want, I wanna get, take out 1,000 bucks," and they give you $1,000. A lot of these jurisdictions, you have to put a request in. It goes through.
21:30
You're waiting for an email back. Um, some of my payouts in New Jersey took days. That's right, days.
21:37
I missed a flight once because I had to get that certain payout for a reason, and it was a very large payout, and it just took three days to get it. It took literally 72 hours to get a payout.
21:47
And it wasn't DraftKings, by the way. It was actually FanDuel. And it was act- it was, it was closer to the beginning, so it wasn't, now things have kind of ironed out more. People are a little more used to it now.
21:57
But, um- If five- So there's pros and cons of everything, you know? Five years ago when passport was ruled unconstitutional, I like to ask this question.
22:03
If I said to you that day, "Hey Bill, this is how it's all gonna go, and, you know, eight, uh, six years down the road, this is gonna happen, you know, one thing after another," would you have, would you have predicted this?
22:13
I thought you were gonna say, "Would you have said it's worth it?" Would I have predict- no, I wouldn't have predicted it. Would you say it's worth it? Yes.
22:19
Yes, because they gave me such ridiculous bonuses in the beginning. Yes. Yes. I, I, I made probably almost 100,000 in bonuses when I first signed up.
22:28
All right, but you, you were taking advantage of those left and right in the beginning. I absolutely was. Yeah. Doing it, and I'm looking forward to do it again. Will it happen again? No. No, of course not.
22:35
But there's still, they still have, there's still casino hosts for some of these big places. Yeah. And, you know, if you get, find a, a square and beard in, not that I would ever do something like that.
22:43
Not, not that Bill Krackomberger would even- No, I would never... he doesn't even know what the bor- word beard means. Yeah. No, I don't do that. More with the Krack Man on the other side.
22:50
[upbeat music] A numbers game on VSiN, the sports betting network. Back on the numbers game. Gil Alexander, we get tweets, we get texts about everything we're talking about. This is from, uh, The Great Las Vegas Chris.
23:06
You're familiar with The Great Las Vegas Chris, right? Yeah, good guy. Great guy. Um, hope- hope Chris is feeling better these days. Uh, I should check in with him more often, quite frankly.
23:14
He says, "The tax is their new way of purging bettors with a brain." Well said. Um, we get tweets at Beating The Book. This is from, from Keane at Crane Pool.
23:24
He said, uh, "This DK, uh, shakedown is like restaurants that charge VIG when you use a credit card. Just bury the cost so I don't know I'm being abused. By the way, I'm a VSiN subscriber from day one.
23:34
The three-year renewal deal is the ultimate EV." That's pretty sick. Is it three years? Like three, I've just seen that, like- Three years, seven- 350 bucks? 75% off, 350 bucks. That's pretty sick. Yeah.
23:46
And, and it's this week only, and it is going fast. It is going... Oh. By the way- This is-... I, it's, it is a fantastic deal. It really is. Free, a free plug. There you go. Um, thank you, Crane Pool.
23:57
This is, uh, Trip Tepper. "The root cause that triggered the surcharge," oh yeah, this is what I was talking about.
24:01
"The root cause that triggered the surcharge is the greedy politicians doing the mafia shakedown of operators.
24:06
These politicians have no clue the expenses required to operate a sportsbook and the concept of profit margin."
24:11
But yeah, as, as Jack pointed out though, you know, these, these sportsbooks You know, were able to name their tax. Um, they were asked, like, "How much do, how much do you think you should get taxed on it?"
24:22
So you're absolutely right, it starts with the, the egregious tax at the top, but then there, there is no excuse for the way that it was implemented by DraftKings.
24:29
Both things can be true, but you're right, it starts at the top.
24:32
Mike Stacks, "People need to keep in mind that DK could still proceed with the 3 and 5% charge, and they could also still take it out of si- uh, same-game parlays or find other ways to take more, and people won't know."
24:41
This was our point. "With DK so open about this, it's, it makes them very hard to trust. Open your eyes, people."
24:47
Mike Alvarez, "Hey, Bill, I'm considerably hairy except for the top of my head if you need a beard in Arizona or Nevada." Oh, my man. Yeah. He's a good guy. He's a good guy. Hey, you know what?
24:56
I wanna tell you guys something. It just hit me. Like, this show could be so spontaneous.
25:00
Last night, I went out to one of those dinners where you just wanna sit back and take in the 200 years of experience these guys had- Yeah... in the bookmaking business. Who'd you have lu- who, who were they?
25:11
You know what? I'd rather not say. Okay. But it was some of the most powerful people that ever were in the bookmaking world. Oh. And, and, and even the betting world.
25:19
How is Ron- You know, only 'cause I didn't ask those guys How is Ron Sacco doing? He's good? [laughs] He's g- no, Ron's, uh, listen, uh, I, I've known Ronnie almost 30 years, so- Ronnie. Ron- Ron's a great guy. Yeah.
25:30
Let me tell you something, too. Yeah. What a restaurant. I was gonna say, where'd you go? That's the most- No, no, in, in his restaurant, that's right, he has a restaurant in Costa Rica, what a restaurant he has.
25:39
Oh, okay. I, you wouldn't think, like, Italian food could be that good in Costa- there's two restaurants in Costa Rica I'll put up against anywhere, so, um, Ron's is one of them.
25:47
But, yeah, no, I, I, I've actually known him for a year. He's a, he's a great guy, and always, uh, he's really happy to be, and he's gonna be in the Hall of Fame. Yeah.
25:54
He's gonna be in the H- in the Hall of Fame, now that you brought this up- Yep... with the great Jimmy Everett, which I've never said his name on air, uh, otherwise known as Henry from Pinnacle.
26:05
So, uh, they're both going in the Hall of Fame. They're both here, and, uh, congratulations to both of them- That's a Hall of Fame right there... for, for, for being here.
26:13
Yeah, and that's some, that, that class, as a matter of fact, I took a photo of it last night.
26:17
My God, that class that's going in, just, just real quick, guys, Richie Boccia Larry, the great Richie Boccia Larry, who we love.
26:24
Um, Nick Bogdanovich, a fantastic, uh, bookmaker, and bettor, very sharp bettor also, Nick. Um, someone I don't, I didn't hear of, Ed Curd. I don't know that name, I'm embarrassed I don't know that name.
26:35
I should've looked into it more. Herbie Hoops, La- La- Lampeck, who's, you know, a big name around- Herbie Hoops... for, for years. Oh. Michael Kent.
26:44
I'm gonna just, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Michael Kent should be number one probably of anyone ever in this Hall of Fame. Wow.
26:53
Michael Kent was the genius behind the programming in the, you know, late '70s, Monmouth College, that, that came out with this huge IBM programming machine to beat sports betting. Genius that he was.
27:06
He's passed, but Michael was absolutely deserves to be in there. Here's the next, of course, Ron Sacco, who we just talked about. Uh, Vic Salerno. I love Vic.
27:15
Every time, I, I go to Tuscany over in, um, over in Henderson, like, you know, maybe once or twice a month, it seems like Vic's in there every single time. But yeah, Vic, I love Vic. He's a classy, classy guy.
27:25
Uh, Chuck Schapp, as known as Chuck Sharp, uh, in there also, o- old-school Vegas guy. This is the last one I get to. Gene Mayday, and what a picture of Gene Mayday. Look at that picture of Gene.
27:36
[laughs] Uh, I never met him, of course, but he's, but the, one of the guys I went to dinner last night was one of his main runners for years. Gene was very sharp. He owned Little Caesars.
27:44
Um, uh, the, what, what a class this year to go into the, to the, to the Sports Betting Hall of Fame.
27:50
But, um, so let me, uh- That's a, that sounds like the initial, uh- Oh, one of- Like the initial Major League Baseball Hall of Fame class, which was Ty Cobb, uh, Babe Ruth, Honus Wagner, Christy Mathewson, and Walter Johnson.
28:03
Oh my God. Look at these guys. Yeah. And they, and they're like- That's what it sounds like...
28:05
but the, but the, a lot of the new guys are, to be, I know all those names, but a lot of people don't, wouldn't know those names- Yeah... unless you're a baseball historian. Yeah.
28:11
Um, so one of the guys last night, you know, this was one of those dinners where you just listen to everyone, and they tell stories, and you wanna, like, record everything.
28:19
It was s- 'cause I wanna remember them forever, 'cause these guys are, you know, are, are, are in their, some of them are in their 80s.
28:25
Oh my God, I don't, I don't know about this, this Philadelphia number they were talking about.
28:30
I know me living in New York and, and, and Jersey growing, North Jersey growing up, there was a number, 976-1313, it was our sports phone. Yes. And my mother used to go absolutely crazy. I'm 15 years old- [laughs]...
28:40
calling the sports phone and getting the bill for like, you know, like 68,000. She used to sound, I had a old-fashioned Italian mother. She literally would chase me around with a wooden spoon. Yeah. I'm not joking.
28:51
She, she did multiple times. But I used to say, I said, "No, I, I, I got it, Mom, I'm gonna pay you." And she goes, "It's $68." This is 1979. $68. "$68, are you crazy?"
29:00
So there was one in New York, they said, I mean, the one in Philadelphia, I don't know about this.
29:05
215-471-3000, and the way the person presented it to me, he's like, you had to get the scores from them or off the radio every 30 minutes. Oh, boy, W- 10, WIP, W- one, one of the stations in Philadelphia.
29:20
And, um, we had that in New York too. We had 1010 WINS and 880. 1010 WINS news scores every 15 minutes, uh, uh, fi- 8:15, 8:45. The worst thing was these guys weren't sports bettors that were giving the information out.
29:36
Right. So they would come right in with this, and they, and the, the way he said it, I, I tell you what, I almost peed my pants the way he said it.
29:43
It, literally, they, they, they don't know, they would g- they would say, "And the St. Louis Cardinals got robbed." Oh. Wait a minute. I thought they were, St. Louis Cardinals, usually you announce the winner. Yeah.
29:54
"They got robbed 7 to 5 in a grand slam walk-off home run against them." And you're like, "Oh, you said St. Louis first."
30:01
[laughs] And then you'd actually know the guys that were the reporters that were giving out the information, and you were like, "Well, next time I gotta be real careful. This guy just made me have a heart attack."
30:10
And it, you know, um, the worst thing was calling up the sport, the, the score phone for me, and I know I'm, my, I know my mother's gonna kill me, that you get the same recording. Yes. So, "Wait, wait, hold it.
30:21
You, you said you'd be back in five minutes. It's five minutes. I want my, I want my 13 cents back." [laughs] Like, you know, the same exact recording.
30:27
You're like, "Oh my gosh, she's gonna kill me," click, and then you click and... But yeah, some of the stories last night, uh, one of them- What restaurant, by the way?
30:36
Uh, we were at, hold on, let me think where I went last night. Jesus, I've been going out, I, I mean, I go out every single night. This guy. Yeah, terrible, ain't I? Where'd you go, Bill? Come on.
30:44
Oh, I know where it was. Okay, hold on, hold on. Last night was a steakhouse kind of out of the way- Oh... that no one kn- really knows about. I don't... And it was... It's at Palace Station. Very good. Oh.
30:53
It was very good, by the way. It was pr- really good, really good steakhouse. Okay. Just because they don't let me bet sports, I'll still go and spend money on a steakhouse.
30:59
I didn't even buy with a person that would not let no one buy. Uh, so anyway, um, one of these horse things, a great horse story from years ago. The horse story was, um, someone was booking horses verse someone else.
31:13
This is right at the start of the internet where most people didn't understand the internet, and they're sitting around this giant place. Uh, the guy's got, you know, a multimillion dollar house, and there was...
31:23
He invited 50, 60 people there every year, and the, the one guy's a, a, was a bookmaker.
31:28
He's booking horses off one of the guys, and the guy that is betting him 2,000, 3,000 a race, now he, he's actually getting the information first before the guy that's booking him. Uh-huh. So he's cheating him. Yep.
31:39
So of... And this guy picks every chalk thing in the world. Well, he decides that he's losing so much money, now he picks a 40 something to one shot. The horse pays $80, he wins a quarter of a million dollars.
31:49
250,000, 27, 8, 20, 30, let's call it 30 years ago, and the guy's like, "All right, well, I'll just write it down. You know, you're gonna get paid just like, uh, we always pay each other back and forth."
31:59
And everyone in the room knew, everyone in the room knew that this guy had it. There's no way you're betting an $80 horse. He bets favorites.
32:07
And so now he goes to give him the mo- he, he's trying to decide how to lose the money back to him 'cause he, 'cause now he's embarrassed. So now he's betting, like, his favorites and stuff.
32:16
It just so happens the next two days he wins another 200,000 bet- Whoa... favorites trying to... So now literally he's trying to decide how to, how to, you know, lose this money back.
32:26
Bottom line, he actually admitted when he was owed 450,000, he said, "Listen, I've lost about 200,000 to you lifetime." He said, "If I can just get 100 of that, and we'll call everything square."
32:37
[laughs] So that's what he said. He just got the- For the 450, he got 100,000 back. I just was like, "This, are these stories real?" That's one story of, hey, oh, no, he got 100, he got $100,000 back.
32:47
And then I have a great Michael Gaughan story if we can do it, if we could do it another week, too. I have, like, five of them I wrote down, but, um, we'll get back. I wanna, I wanna hear the Michael Gaughan story. Okay.
32:54
Uh, uh, people also wanna hear what you're betting, uh, preseason week one. Sure. We can talk about that as well.
32:59
That's a great subject because I'll tell you, last, last season, week one, every single game I had [laughs] three, four, five, six, seven points, the best of it, and broke even, but then destroyed it the next weeks two and three.
33:10
So I would wish there was preseason all year round. [laughs] Now, I, I mean, the information is so good off socials. Um, literally, I've given out, like, four games. Every one of them has moved pretty big.
33:21
One just moved back, though. Someone's on Buffalo now.
33:23
Steve Makinen, uh, at vsyn.com wrote a great piece about how if you can just fade the public in these preseason games, though, it is, like, last year worked out beautifully. Oh, wow. Wow, okay.
33:33
Just fade them 'cause they move so much. I mean- That's right... literally- Handle and ticket count... th- and they're going to the key numbers of seven. It's hard to believe that they moved seven points.
33:41
We'll get to Crack's plays on the other side and that Michael Gaughan story. Numbers game, VSiN, the sports betting network.
33:46
[upbeat music] A numbers game on VSiN, the sports betting network. Hey, it's, uh, contest season, and it is coming quick.
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34:41
Again, that's winnerscircleproxy.com, VSiN's preferred proxy partner. Gil Alexander, Wyatt Tomchek in for Kelly Billin, and Bill Crackemberger. What'd you bet, uh, preseason?
34:52
By the way, the, the Steve Makinen thing I was talking about, vsyn.com. Last year, 49 games, right? Total, 23 NFL preseason, uh, 2023 NFL preseason. Uh, majority handle on point spreads
35:04
went 14/30, 14 and 30 against the spread. The majority number of bets on point spreads went 17 and 32 against the spread. This is when you look at the ticket counts, um, and the handle on, on splits.
35:18
Majority handle on totals went 19 and 28. Majority number of bets on totals went 18 and 29. So if you can, uh, fade the public, last year was super-duper, uh, profitable for you.
35:31
We'll see if that continues into this year. You, uh, you just gave an example off air about, uh, something you gave out- Yes... on the Raiders. Well, Las Vegas Raiders, I took plus one and a half.
35:41
One of the sharpest guys back east, um, put that out there. So plus one and a half, and then, uh, uh, went to three on, on one shot.
35:48
Matter of fact, I gotta give credit to the Westgate, but if I bet the Westgate something, they move four and a half points on first move. You're never gonna see that any other season, only in preseason football.
35:58
I took one and a half, they went right to minus three. I mean, they, they [laughs] just know it's gonna move, so they're, they're on preseason. They're very smart, uh, over there to, to do that.
36:06
But so now they go to, uh... And then some- then a, then a... I think it's Right Angle Sports give it out minus three. Now it goes to six. So now the line goes to six, and then Fezzik comes in with the other side.
36:19
Of course he does. [laughs] Yeah. The other side of the game, and, uh, right now it's settled, it's settled at four, but it just goes to show you how we both can win. Mm-hmm.
36:27
If the game lands, you know, four or five or, or even on the six or, or three, I mean, you know, both sides can win. Um, and, and, and it's something you said before the break that made me think of that.
36:38
Someone said that fading the public, is that what you said? That's what we were just talking about. You're fading, fading the public, though- Yeah Uh, you could talk about that as far as anything goes though.
36:49
Uh, big fades of big syndicate groups when the, the line moves three, four, five points. Um, sometimes both sides are right, you know? So, um- What, what, what have you played that's still relatively available? Nothing.
37:01
Anything? Nothing. Nothing. It's all gone? No. It's all gone. Yeah. Maybe you guy, uh, the last bet I made this morning was Cardinals under th- Game 130, Arizona, and, and that's, you could still get 37s.
37:13
Right here, right here you can. I, I found a 37 and a half at Westgate, but you could still, uh, get 37, uh, on the total on the under. But you gotta be careful sometimes, you know.
37:22
Your, years previous you'd never see this. Kansas City, 40 and a half. San Fran game, 39 la- 39. Green Bay, 39 and a half. Next game, 39, 39. You'd never see those, those numbers preseason. The numbers were 33- Yeah...
37:36
30. Yeah. 29 and a half, 27 and a half. But last year, the books got their hand, you know, got their, uh, their butt handed to them, uh, having those low numbers, and Steve Fezzik was one of them. Oh.
37:47
Over on, on, like, bl- everything. Well, there's, there's still, like, five or six games heading into this week one of preseason which are at 34 and 35, right? Somewhere in that pocket. And I never- Tonight's game.
37:58
Tonight- Yeah... tonight's game is one of them. Yeah. I, so I never, you know, we never talk about this any other time of year, but these three team, what people were doing was these three team 10 point, uh, teasers.
38:07
Yeah. Which, by the way, used to be priced at minus 120. Now they're kind of, they're, they're gouging you on these. But you tease those down- Yeah... and you just defy these teams to go lower than 24 points.
38:17
I, I gotta be blunt, Gil. Who's taking that? Who's booking that? Well, that's the thing. So now- [laughs] So it's, it's, it's funny you say that- Yeah...
38:23
because ever since saying that, th- they're, they've disappeared in most spots now. Oh, honestly. And the only ones that still have them, like FanDuel has it, right? But it's, like, minus 146. Yeah, yeah.
38:34
So that's the problem. But, uh, I'll just tell you guys since you brought it up. Yeah. Teasers are strong as morphine- Yeah... in this time of the year. Yeah. If you can lay seven point teaser- Yep...
38:44
even you're, even though you're laying more juice than I'm used to, when I start, when I first started betting teasers, seven points was 115. I had a couple shops 120. Uh, and, and six point teasers were always even.
38:56
I mean, I had five shops that were always even. So now they have, they have decided that, you know, people were doing these standard long teasers and, and winning. But, um,
39:05
if you can do teasers preseason football, if your shop takes it, and I say your shop because sometimes people have bet with a local guy or something, if they'll ta- if they're taking teasers, boy, woo-hoo, they could be strong, man, if you, if you're betting some teasers, um- Yeah, yeah...
39:20
uh, you know, plus two and a half to plus nine and a half, plus one to plus eight.
39:24
Uh, a- and you wanna make sure you're playing with a place that teasers, if you ha- if you get a push, you actually don't, don't lose your money. Yes. So, you know, places, i- if the other side of the game loses by 40,
39:37
I, I, I don't care. You can't have a one team teaser. I know there's bookmakers in this town that'll fight me on that. You cannot have a one team teaser.
39:45
I don't care if the other side lost by 40, the other, the other part, the other leg of it. If I am taking plus eight and it's eight, it's over and done, you get a refund of your money.
39:55
So, and, and a lot of the, you know, the big sites do that. The, the Dra- the DraftKings, the Fanduels, the, even William Hill, we'll give Caesars cr- credit for something. Uh, they, they, you know, at least they did.
40:03
Less, less rules change there, but even with your, with your guys, request that with your local guys. Well, the, the interesting quirk on that, well, first of all, a couple things.
40:10
One, a lot of these, a lot of the offshores that y- that would offer the three team 10 pointers, when they would make it minus 120, they would say, "If there's a tie, you lose," right? They'd throw that in. Yes.
40:22
You have to be very careful about that. Very good.
40:24
But what you were talking about is the, there's two teamers where, again, what Bill is saying is if one side pushes and the other loses, is this the scenario you're talking about? Yeah. You can't have a one team teaser.
40:35
You can't have a one team teaser. So I know, like, MGM, for instance, you get your money back. There are, I would imagine, a colossal percentage of bettors would f- would not even think to go back and get their refund.
40:46
They just say, "Oh, I lost." Yes. Right? I lost one leg and I pushed the other. Dumpster diving. You'll see it. That's, that's right. You'll see dumpster diving. Yeah.
40:53
You'll see dumpster di- dumpster diving when the team ties sometimes 'cause you'll bet the early game and the early game gets blown out by 20. At nighttime, the, the primetime game, it pushed, and people don't know.
41:05
They throw their tickets away. They don't really realize what happens. Why are you laughing?
41:09
[laughs] I was saying it's 'cause my old, 'cause my old buddy Jay Rood, who used to be the vice president of racing sports at MGM, when he would talk about this- Right...
41:15
right, he would get so angry about it from his perspective. I'm like, "Jay, can't be a one..." He goes, "I know, but it still pisses me off," he used to say. Oh, okay. Yeah. Why, why, why?
41:22
They, they, they did it- When they always give your money back. Oh, give your money back? Yeah, they do. They, because they're cur- because as you say, you cannot have a one team teaser.
41:29
Listen, there's guys in this town, we're sitting in a book. Yeah. I love, I, I loved, you know, we, we know, you know we loved, uh, Derek and the Circa. Yep.
41:35
There's books in this town like Circa don't give their money back. I don't get it. I don't get it. I, I, I, I, I don't get it. I, I, you know, maybe the bookmaker can explain.
41:43
You probably can explain it 'cause I probably know more than, than, than some of the guys in risk. And I'm not saying Circa, I'm saying in general, these guys that work in risk nationwide.
41:50
They, they don't even, they're, you can't have a one team teaser. Nope. So I, I, I'm gonna, I'll, I'll fight to the d- the day I die for that. That, that's for the customer, trying to get the customer their money back.
42:00
Everyone else does. Closing seconds of the, uh, first quarter of the first, uh, basketball semifinal in the Olympics. Germany up seven on France. They have kind of led the whole first frame here.
42:11
Uh, as many as, uh, led by as, as many as double digits earlier in the, uh, in the quarter. 25-18 right now, Germany, 12.9 seconds left as France tries to come back from the early hole that they find themselves in.
42:24
You bet a lot of Olympics or did you bet anything at all? I didn't bet, I really didn't bet too much Olympics. Yeah. A couple prop bets. Yeah. Nothing, nothing really, uh, nothing really cr- you bet the Olympics?
42:32
Did you bet some Olympics stuff? Not so much. Drew Dinsick comes on and gives us a lot of Olympic bets. Those, some are his. I feel if you bet anything against the United States- [laughs]...
42:39
it's like, it's like so just non-American, you know? Um- Zach had, uh, Wyatt Zach had the bet, uh, taking the points against the USA tonight and I, uh, in my head I thought the same. I was like, "Should I make my
42:51
m- mark it down Zach is anti-American joke?" But I decided not to this time, but I feel the same way. You, you reserve that for Paul Carr. I reserve that for Paul Carr.
42:57
[laughs] Thanks to our buddy, uh, Marcus here, bringing us in, uh, golf tickets Augusta, bringing us in hats- Yes...
43:03
T-shirts, and, uh, yeah, he's the best, that's the best place to go to get, uh, your Augusta tickets, uh, every year.
43:08
He's, matter of fact, he, he, he has more rooms, everything in his packages, uh, so, uh, golfticketsaugusta.com. So now you're gonna do a, uh, the, tomorrow you're moderating, am I right? I am. Is that the right word?
43:20
I am moderating. I believe that is the right word. I'll just get out of the way- Right... 'cause it's, uh, it's a panel with Billy Walters on it- How cool... the greatest sports bettor of them all. How cool.
43:29
Um, but it's about, you know, my first question honestly is going to be, this is, by the way, it's about, you know, we have a former, again, a former Pennsylvania, uh, regulator that's on there. Oh, nice.
43:39
Uh, a former, um, government official from West Virginia who was making gaming law. Nice. Well, not a government official, but yeah- Okay... I guess a government official. And, uh, and also Alex Kane from Sports Trading.
43:50
Yeah. But my first, my first question is going to be, you know, Billy, you've done it all. Why did you find it important enough to be here for this? Wow, very nice.
43:58
And I think, and I think what it is, is he, he's, he's as mad as anybody. Like there- Sure... should be a voice for the bettor- That's good... in all of this. And you know, I, I've known Billy 25 years. Yeah.
44:06
And the, I always said it before we were allowed to talk, like, 'cause everyone was nervous, you can't talk. Now everyone's, you know, I guess it's, everything's fine. We got offshore guys going, it doesn't matter.
44:14
So, uh, Billy has always been such a generous soul to so many people, not just charitable to charities, so many people. I, I, I have nothing bad to say. Billy's always been a great guy. Yeah.
44:26
You know, so it's just, uh- Well, people are there for Billy more than anybody. Yeah, yep, yep. So, uh, I, I am honored that Spanky would have me do that. That's tomorrow- Cool... after the show. Billy, thank you.
44:34
Thank you, guys. Bill Krackenberg. Have a good week. Best Bets is next. Enjoy, from VSIN, the Sports Betting Network. [upbeat music]
A Numbers Game
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