Transcript 0:01 The numbers tell the story, they always do. You one of those idiots who believe in analytics? This is a Numbers Game with Gil Alexander on VSiN. 0:09 Hour number three of a Numbers Game at VSiN, V Sports Betting Network, vsin.com, Game Plus, iHeartRadio, YouTube TV, SiriusXM channel 158. Gil Alexander. 0:17 Kelly has gone behind the glass because, uh, Crack is about to join us here momentarily for the return of Bill Krackenberger. Uh, we got tweets at Beating The Book. 0:25 Indiana Jet, who I believe was one of the, uh, four survivors a couple years ago, few years ago back in, uh, Circuit Survivor, he says, "The take-a-thon process is a full-time job. 0:35 With eight books to choose from, I gotta log in, enter the two-factor code to opt into promos and shop lines. 0:40 15 minutes later, the final tally is 0.1 unit at minus 122 on FanDuel, 0.2 units at minus 152 on DK, and the rest at Fanatics at minus 185." Yeah, it i- it is a, uh, a la- laborious process sometimes, for sure. 0:54 Brian Shaffer 31, "Hey, Gil's back. I thought he was on vacation this week." I am a one-host guy. Hey, thanks Brian Shaffer, appreciate that. 1:02 Brian Lamb, "Kelly o-" Oh, that's the one I read about Kelly's, uh, deficiency on the, on the snapping of the finger. Brad Magnus adds about that, "Can Kelly snap his fingers like people do on a Tenachu?" 1:14 I'm not sure if he meant to type that. "Pointer hitting the middle finger while held with the thumb." Oh, this is, like, advice on, on how to, on Kelly can produce a sound. Matthew, Matthew's not happy with me. 1:25 He says, "Strange you seem to be blaming Kerr, Steve Kerr, for the Kuminga relationship. Kerr has gotten along with everyone since his playing days, and his reputation is beyond reproach. 1:36 Kuminga's mom was doing her grocery shopping there." Um, I th- first of all, I love Steve Kerr. Love Steve Kerr. But everyone can 1:47 have moments where they, where they're not as successful trying to, uh, have a relationship with everyone, and I think this, I think if you're absolving Steve Kerr of all guilt here in this relationship with, uh, not making it work, Jonathan Kuminga with the Warriors, I think the, I think it's actually you or, who are, have the bias on this. 2:04 'Cause I love Steve Kerr, but clearly the fact that the Warriors weren't able to figure it out with the kid, forget about the off-court stuff, I'm talking about on the basketball court, that absolutely, partially, if not mostly, falls on the Warriors front office and on Steve Kerr himself. 2:19 I will stand by that. Uh, Brandon Webb, "What effect, if any, has the new and improved Kelly light had on the prominent arm swing?" I have not done an analysis on that. I will have to, uh, analyze the arm swing. 2:28 [laughs] Uh, Buddhist Man, "What exactly will the Archduke Ferdinand presentation ceremony be broadcast? I'm guessing, uh, Firing Squad Network?" Yes, the strange reference I made earlier. 2:36 And Primetime Leon Sanders, "Yo, hey man, I think the famous quote from an NFL coach you are looking for from, uh, Parcells was, 'How about them Cowboys?'" No, that wasn't it. 2:44 "Also, can you give your skinny boy sidekick, uh, Country Clubbing K. Michael Bidlin, a raise to be able to afford food to accompany his brown liquor diet? Peace, love, and crack." Okay. 2:54 Darren Frazier, "Return of the crack. I've never done drugs in my life, but two weeks without crack and I know what it's like fiending for a fix." Welcome back, Crack Man. 3:01 Without further ado, Unscripted with Bill Krackenberger. Let's go. [upbeat sports music] Oh, yeah. Billy. Good morning. How are you, sir? Good. 3:19 Thank you for all the nice compliments, and, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's nice to, that people are actually missing me after a couple weeks. They miss you. Yeah, cool. How, how can you, how can people not miss you? 3:29 [laughs] Well, yeah, I don't know. It's, uh, I gotta lose some weight. Oh, oh, you missed me. You mean that. Yes. [laughs] Oh, instead of, like, walking through the casino. Yeah. Uh, no, but, uh, I was away myself. 3:39 I was down in, uh, Florida at the Hard Rock, uh, in Hollywood, which always shocks me how busy it is down there. And I was telling you right when I came in the studio here, 3:49 it just always amazes me how many people recognize me from your show. Yeah. I- it's amazing how many people watch the show. I, uh, all the, all employees of the Hard Rock Sports Book, every one of 'em, like, watch. 4:02 The management watches. Um, and I think it helps me too down there because I, I [laughs] bet a hell of a lot of money down there, and, uh, they're, they're, they're very good to me, let's say. 4:11 You also- Very good to me... you also cut a very iconic figure with the Kangol, so I think you're easily spottable- Yeah... in a casino as well, I'm guessing. Yeah. 4:19 Yeah, no, no, it's- Not to diminish what you're saying, but- No, but it's, it's- Yeah... it, I'm telling you though, people, years ago it was, uh, "I seen you on that show on HBO," and of course- [laughs]... 4:26 it was Showtime. Yeah. But- That's right. That's right... um, and then, and then they say, "I seen you here, I seen you here," and you... 4:32 I did a lot of shows on WFAN back in the day, uh, when JJ After Dark was there, and, uh, Steve Summers. I did a lot of good, good shows on, on FAN that was a real popular... 4:42 Even though it's only the tri-state, they're really into their sports there, so they used to just take, used to take calls. I got a lot of people that, from there. But I'm telling you, 4:51 uh, people, it's from, it's from YouTube also a little bit, but I'm mostly- YouTube TV, yeah... mostly it's, I'm telling you, VSiN has that outreach. I'm- Yes... 5:02 and, and I'm, i- if there's ever, like, one person comes up to me, I know that, that means there's, you know, 100 more there, or 1,000 more there, you know, there that... It just always shocks me. 5:11 I guess YouTube TV is bigger than I... I don't have that, so I guess it's not, but I guess it's bigger than I think, and it- Yeah... 5:17 it's nice that people can, uh, come up to you and talk to you and try to, uh, you know, little nuggets over the years that I've given out off of my losing streaks back in my life, especially growing up in the '80s and '90s. 5:30 I was a losing gambler. 5:31 You know, I'm gonna tell you what, I'll, I'll even say, well, I guess not the '70s, but, um, i- you know, literally I started out playing those parlay cards I was, like I said on the show years ago, when I was a, you know, nine, 10 years old. 5:43 And, uh, in the '80s I was with a bunch of degen friends, even though we were 15, 16, uh, late '80s or early '90s, and thought we knew everything. 5:51 And even though I had some of the best schooling from, uh, my, my mother's side, my, my Italian cousin, very, very smart, um- And went, went on to technical school, genius. Very, very wealthy today, actually. 6:04 But he taught me blackjack card counting, he taught me some... It didn't matter. Even though I had those things, I still had other leaks. I went to Monmouth Park and blew my money. Went to the racetracks- Mm-hmm... 6:14 went to, played negative EV games, even though I knew to, to, to play someone head-to-head blackjack and deal to the bottom. I, I knew so many things, yet I couldn't come o- I couldn't overcome my vices, my leaks. 6:27 And I let people know that because I wanna let them know that I went through the same struggles, trials, and tribulations that they're going through. And can it be stopped? Maybe not. 6:38 Maybe not, but if you can learn to lose less, that would even make me feel, feel, feel better. Because it's hard to overcome all these things with so much closet gambling out there. 6:51 There's now, 2026, forget it, bombs over Tokyo here. You have apps that you could just be a closet gambler. Yeah. No one knows about it. 7:00 You're not buying in in front of a dealer, you're not interacting with other patrons, you're not s- saying, "Oh my God, I'm buying for all this cash." 7:07 And, and people are saying, "Wow, this guy, well, look at this guy firing." I mean, you could, there, you're not... 7:11 Now it's just an app you're pressing, whether it be live wagering or, or the iGaming, which is out of control in this country. I wish none of the companies had iGaming. 7:22 The money, again, January numbers came out, blew everything away. I'm just sh- going by New Jersey, but i- if it's that way in New Jersey, it's that way everywhere. It's, it's the old human condition we talk about. Yeah. 7:34 The numbers in New Jersey came out, shocked me. It was like the brick-and-mortar casinos were up about 5, 6% from previous January, which numbers blew the numbers of previous year out of the water. 7:46 And I'm talking about the brick-and-mortar numbers, like 250 million. How about the iGaming? 7:52 Blew that number out of the w- Well- $270 million they won in one month off people gambling in their underwears and, and, uh, and pajamas. 8:00 And none of this even talks about the prediction markets, right, on top of it all. Nothing to do with prediction markets. Yeah. Nothing. It doesn't- This is, this is the-... it doesn't even, doesn't even touch on that. 8:06 Yeah. 8:06 Um, not to, not to be too serious about this, but you see, uh, uh, for as much as we talk about gambling, 'cause we drift into this every once in a while because believe it or not, we actually care because we know how it would've affected us had we had access to it when we were that age, right? 8:22 Let's say when we were 15 years old, uh, it would not have been good to have access so easily to these things. I don't know if you saw this, but in- Very good... but in Australia, did you see this is... 8:31 So Australia is banning social media for kids- Really?... under a certain age. Really? Yeah, they have the pokies there. C- One of the biggest- Countrywide... they're degenerates. Yeah. S- well- A lot of them... 8:42 not even getting into gambling gambling, I'm just talking about- Oh... social media- Oh, I gotcha... entirely. Wow. And I'm, I'm wondering if the w- if the world is starting to turn on- Yeah... this. 8:55 I, a- and again, that's one country. Would it ever happen in the US? Once we, once we have our freedoms, it's a whole different thing here that happens. But I wonder if it would, i- if that kind of 9:06 sort of, uh, steam would grow on certain things about kids at a certain age. 9:11 Obviously, we come from a gambling perspective 'cause we know how, how hard that could, um, or, or not how hard it could be to overturn, but how the, the consequences of just having it available to kids. 9:24 And I just, I wonder if we'll ever get to that point in the country where there is some steam developing for people lobbying to have it- That's amazing-... curtail for kids... 9:31 'cause there's so much money out there on social media. Yeah. I- it's amazing that, that, that, you know, they're not paying off the right people to keep social media going. 9:38 Uh, that's an am- in- interesting country that it is, though. Uh, the... 9:42 It's amazing, the gambling, how it's out of control in a lot of the European, or, or, you know, now we're talking about Australia, but Au- Australia is just amazing. 9:50 I've seen a 60 Minute special on the gambling in like every single bar, like how it just, it, it, it's out of control there. So I know you're talking about social media, but that does cross over- No, it does. 9:59 That's why I bring it up... and it does draw parallels. Yeah, I bring it up. Um, and- And I know there's a, there's gonna be a huge portion of the audience that hears even w- me bringing that up, it's like, "Oh, crazy. 10:07 That'll never happen." It, it happened there. Yeah. It's not as crazy as you think. Yeah, now wasn't TikTok going to be banned here? I, I, I, I really don't follow. Yeah, that was all political thing, too. 10:17 That was all, though. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, it, it's, it's, it's, it's these people that are on social media, too, that are just blatant con artists and charlatans- Yeah... and snake oil salesmen. Yeah. 10:28 I seen a kid the other day, he's got a million followers, gets millions of views on social media talking about his system of obtaining comps and cash back from playing bubble dice, the little individual dice games, and roulette. 10:46 And I can't believe all the people that have this guy on their show. Now, I'm not gonna mention his name- Yeah... because I, I don't like to throw anyone individually under the bus, you know? But 10:57 I can't believe the info this guy was giving out. I, I, I literally was, was sick to my stomach, him telling you, "Well, your buddy plays black and you play red on roulette. 11:08 You sit by each other, you negotiate a deal that you get a percentage of your cash back. You pull your card out. If the number- [laughs]... if you're, if you lose, you leave your card in. 11:19 If the other guy pull the card..." And they, they're t- he's talking about s- what about if the zeroes come out? Like, he doesn't even mention that. Like- No... what about if you both lose? 11:28 Like, a, it just so much BS, but the, the public's enamored by his look, by the way he talks, and they, they just don't know what we know through our life of doing this. And you, and you know what? 11:41 We'll never win that battle. Never win. We'll never win. Got millions of views. Yeah. Millions. Coming back, Crack Man, Bill Krackomberger back in the fold on The Numbers Game right here at VSIN. 11:52 You're here because you want an edge. That's what separates listeners from winners. But let's be real, mindset alone doesn't get bets home. 11:58 Pros win because they've got the tools, the data, and the discipline, and now so can you. VSIN Pro gives you access to the same real-time insights the sharps use. 12:07 No secrets, no fluff, just actionable info that moves markets. Tap the link and see why serious bettors are turning knowledge into profit with VSIN Pro. 12:20 [upbeat music] A Numbers Game on VSiN, the sports betting network. Back on The Numbers Game, live from Circa Resort Casino, downtown Las Vegas. Uh, don't forget about this great deal that we got going on. 12:36 It is our Hoops special. Uh, it's really all about Hoops Mania, our Hoops Mania special if you're betting college hoop. Right now, you can get VSiN Pro access through May 1st for just 29.99 with our Hoops Mania special. 12:49 VSiN Pro gives you daily best bets, real-time betting splits from DraftKings and Circa, AI-powered prop tools, full access to every VSiN show on demand. 12:55 You also get our March Mania betting guide packed with team breakdowns, betting trends, future strategies, and picks from VSiN's top analysts. If you're planning to bet college hoops, VSiN Pro gives you a real edge. 13:04 Sign up now at vsin.com/subscribe. We get tweets. 13:08 Beating The Book, Indiana Jet wanted to chime in and say, uh, "With the Jets trading Jermaine Johnson for a, uh, defensive tackle, they now have a desperate need for a starting defensive end that can rush the passer and set the edge. 13:17 Reuben Bane," he says, "is by far the best edge-setting pass rusher in this draft." Uh, Jason, Ice Cold Gambler, "Crack is back. Finally, let's go, A and G." 13:28 Nasty Nel, or Nasty Neil, pardon me, Neil, Nasty Neil, "Why so much concern with Flag missing games when rookie of the year, or Rookie of the Year award does not have the 65 game qualifier applied? 13:38 Is there a certain amount of games missed where you feel Flag won't be considered any further?" That's just it, Nasty, uh, Neil. 13:44 It isn't about the, the, the minimum 'cause it doesn't apply to this category, as we've talked about. Um, but there is a point where you're too early in a season and he's gonna miss too many games. 13:54 Has nothing to do with the stipulation of 65 games like it does in the other category. 13:59 It's just simply Khan Kineppal keeps coming, and if Cooper s- keeps sitting, then at some point it's not fate out completely that Cooper Flagg wins that. So it's a different calculus. 14:10 Uh, Montreal Max, "All is right in the gambling world again as we got Gil and Bill back for our unscripted Thursday hour and let the stories roll. By the way, I say it a lot, but nobody's better..." 14:17 Oh, this is very nice. "If you think Gil and media with the tennis player names outside of the match broadcasts, true pro." Thank you, Montreal Max. 14:24 Um, this is from Del Mind the Gap Radio, "As the voice of New Jersey Sports Line 976-1313, we did 250,000 calls a day to lottery and 100,000 calls to Sports Line when there was no internet. 14:37 13 cents a call from 1985 to 2006. New Jersey hotbed of gambling." That's unbelievable. [laughs] That's incredible. 250,000 calls a day in one state. That's just insane about gam- just to get gambling results. 14:51 That's sick. Wow. Great, great tweet. Nick Real N- Real Nick says, "Yes, it would've been bad if we had such easy betting access when we were kids. 14:57 On the flip side, part of the thrill of gambling back then was knowing we, you were betting with someone who was one degree of separation from a guy who'd break your legs for missed payments." There was that. Yes. Yeah. 15:07 Um- That's funny... the, uh, the other thing, he, so Kelly was telling me this when he was here with Matt for two weeks, that he, th- they were talking about, you know, they, they, they planned their segments. 15:16 They wanted to talk about intelligent betting things. They did. And then, uh, K- Kelly will correct me on, on this on it. I don't know, some parlay came up, somebody on Twitter, I think it was, with some rando parlay. 15:26 Yep. Just an outlandish one, and they sort of like begrudgingly brought it up on air, and he said that's all the tweets he would get afterwards. So we also, we have Chris Foster here behind the, the glass. 15:40 Chris hit a $5 parlay like over a thousand to one the other day. Wow. You know how many tweets we've gotten about like, "Hey, what's, what's Chris's next parlay?" Wow. Yeah, he's hooked for life. 15:49 [laughs] So it just shows you that you can't, you can't combat that. People love, and this is, this is lotteries, right? You can't combat that. The notion of betting a little to make a lot- Yeah... we cannot combat that. 16:01 Yep. Yeah. That is just how our human brains are wired. I, I waved a white flag, uh- Yeah... about a year ago on that. Yeah. I said, "You know what? I know you're gonna bet 'em anyway. Just try to bet- Yeah... 16:09 5% of what you're betting on a straight bet on a parlay on one of these long shots." I don't, but I'm, if you're gonna do it anyway, just make sure you keep it, you know, keep your head level on them. 16:18 Here's a question for you from JC. "Good morning, guys. Question for Crack. I'm the, I'm the top tier at Resorts World in Fontainebleau. Do resorts like Wynn steal tier match? Appreciate the time, fellas. 16:27 Have a great day." Yeah, I, you know, I, I have just, with this new rule for 2026, I have literally deserted casino gambling, so I don't even know if they're doing tier matches. 16:38 If anyone knows, please tweet us and let us know, 'cause it's, there is some great tier match, uh, things that they've done in the past, a lot of these casinos- Yeah... especially Wynn, so that's a good question. 16:48 Nemo, Ryan's voice, "Crack, great point about closet gambling. That's really scary for me personally. My accountability is talking out loud with friends, family. 16:54 I take it seriously, and now my dad and brother ask if I have any plays so they can follow along and root for me." Wow. There you go. Wow. Wow. 17:01 And Steve Fezzik, uh, commenting on the baseball, uh, discussion I had with Joe Peeta earlier, where I asked Joe, "What is the, what's the difference in your projection versus the actual season win total that would actually trigger a bet?" 17:13 Joe said three games. Uh, Fezzik says, "Mathematically, season wins MLB team, team is off by half a game and laying more minus 110, it's a break even bet. 17:23 So if the team is misaligned by one game, that's a clear advantage per Fezzik." Yeah. Okay. Do you bet, do you bet, uh, season wins in baseball? Do you do any of that? It, it's funny you ask. Hmm. 17:34 I'm running around this week, and next week I will have, uh- Oh... I will have some stuff for the guys, you know, the, the, our listeners, guys, and then, you know, the, and the females to also listen. 17:43 Um, last year, I think I had a couple, like Boston to make the playoffs, Minnesota to not make the playoffs. 17:49 I'm gonna have some just like that, um, running around betting a couple this week, and, uh, I just got back in town, so, uh, yeah, I'm gonna have some. And, you know, it's, people say, "Wow, March Madness is not here." 18:01 Well, baseball starts in how long? I don't know, six weeks? I mean, uh- Well, not even. Not even. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's late March this year, an early start- Wow... to the baseball season. Yeah, not even. 18:11 So I'm- Yeah... gonna have, uh, gonna have some, uh, obtainable futures for you guys. Uh, you know, it's funny, uh, you mention this because where do you think... Now, I got in yesterday. 18:22 Last night I'm, I'm running around doing some, some betting. I didn't get done with... I, I got about 30, 40%. What do you think the biggest limits in town are for, for baseball futures? Now, 18:33 first off, let, let, let's set this up. You have eight months to hope I die. [laughs] You hope the tickets are missing, you hope the dog eats the tickets, hope- Right, right... some- and I could lose. 18:43 I could actually lose the bets, I mean- And you still have a month to, like, to actually balance your books about them, too. And that's a great point. Yeah. You have a month to balance your books. Yeah. 18:50 What do you think the- And throughout the season... you would think the big limits of, of regular season wins, let's look at. Uh, boy. Over-under regular season wins. It can't be more than 3K. Okay. Okay. 19:00 Where, where can I get 3K? I wanna go there. I, I was gonna say, it's probably 2K. Yeah. Yeah. Um, some of the counter limits or app limits have on- you know, pretty much shocked me. Only because, 19:12 you understand, I know people that were doing this 35 years ago, 30 years ago, and myself getting involved around 27, 28 years ago in Las Vegas. I, I got down more money then than I can now. 19:24 And if you go by the rule of seven, money is, you know, uh, quadrupled, whatever, whatever it may be, more than that even. Um, 19:31 I was shocked to see some of the places in town that only had a dime or two dimes limits, and then to go down to, uh, South Point and be able to put in a very nice size bet, they were very good to me, gave me much more at South Point. 19:47 The Wynn, very good to me. The Wynn said, "What do you wanna bet?" And I said, "Well, what can I bet?" He goes, "Would you, just what do you wanna bet, Bill? What would you like to bet?" 19:55 And I was like, "Well, can I bet up to 10,000?" He goes, "Yeah, you, you can bet it." Like, like some of the big books in town, some of the big boys taking a dime or two, and you have a solo shop taking up to 10,000. 20:07 Yep. You know, so, it, and I don't even gamble in the casino there anymore. I'm, you know, they, they backed me off from that, so very nice to know that South Point and, uh, and, and, and The Wynn were taking big bets. 20:17 The bigger names, if you, if you dare go to 2K- Yeah... at the counter, it is really a potluck experience. You have no idea what's gonna come back. Yeah. 20:27 You have no idea if they're gonna s- you spit in, give you a worse number, if they're gonna say cut it down to 1K, whatever it is. Or are they gonna do the old Gil Alexander trick that they did to Gil? 20:35 Sorry, someone just bet that regular season win on the White Sox over at one of our other properties- Yeah... at the same time. Oh, I was so mad. [laughs] I was so mad. Yeah, no. 20:45 Um, g- uh, couple other things just to go. One, uh, going back to the, the, those, those YouTubers and these scammers and charl- charlatans here. Uh, 20:56 I seen a show on YouTube, this is another guy with a million hits, literally a million hits, saying how the NBA is fixed. 21:05 Uh, James Harden got 40 points in their first half and nothing in the second half, and players get down $2 million, p- people get down $2 million on this type of thing. 21:14 C- this, this was a real video saying that all this money that they get down on these player props, it's just impossible. It's just amazing some of the information that's out there. 21:22 The same guy said, "And don't go to the blackjack tables with the shuffler machines because they're fixed. Just like you've seen in the NBA case where they're fixing the shufflers, the casinos are doing that." 21:36 This guy's got a million followers. How can you say that a game in the casino, because the, the cards are in a shuffler, they're being fixed? Y- first of all, 21:46 if they tried to fix it, you don't know if the player's gonna stay or hit, so that's gonna change the whole outcome of the deck. 21:54 Like, you don't know if someone's gonna stay on the 12 versus a two where you're supposed to hit. 21:57 Or, or, you know, it's just amazing how gullible the public, because they lose their own money, and they're losing, and it's, I said this many times, since we're little kids playing checkers with our dad, Monopoly, Monopoly, Game of Life, whatever it may be, and we just don't like losing. 22:15 So we say to ourselves, "Well, I can't believe I lost. It can't be my fault." You're looking for reasons why you lost, not just because the game was in the house's favor. 22:26 So what's happening is you have idiots like these people on social media saying, "Don't go to the tables where there's a shuffler because the game, the, the deck's being fixed just like it was in the NBA poker case." 22:38 That's total BS. It's total... Now, I don't like shuffle machines myself. I, I wanna get, I wanna deal out of the hand, I want you to deal out of your hand. But because, you know, you can't... 22:46 There's many reasons why, but anyway, it's just total BS, but there's a large population of the audience that say, "I knew that's the reason why I lost." 22:54 I do think, you know, we, we are so wrapped up in our little corner of the world, though, that we, we tend to think that it's just about our sports betting. 23:00 But I do think it's a reflection of, of why are people attracted to whatever. Right. To a politician, to a cult. Yes. To whatever. Like, our brains are just so impressionable. Definitely. 23:11 It's, it's just a, such a flaw for, for the species itself. More with Crack on the other side. Numbers Game, VSIN, the sports betting network. [upbeat music] A Numbers Game on VSIN, the sports betting network. 23:26 Back on the Numbers Game. We get tweets. Speaking about Chance Copper Pot, "I'm no social media savant, but something dawned on me the other day. 23:35 Since the blue check mark thing changed on Twitter is when all these scammers came out on here because they can monetize clicks and views. They'll post anything." Yeah, that didn't help, for sure. 23:46 Don't worry, Elon's got it all figured out. 23:48 Scott, New York, Bet16, "Gil, a comparison that comes to mind when you talk how gamblers wanna pay little to win big is the movie Rounders, the difference between Worm looking to score big and Knish-" Yes... 23:58 "the grinder." Very good. Good comparison. Scott, Scrub68, "Always good information." 24:02 Oh, he's talking about the, uh, college basketball formula, said, "Houston has way too many scoring droughts for me to touch them to win it all or even Final Four or Elite Eight. 24:09 It will, of course, come down to the match-ups when the bracket is released in a few weeks." Yeah, that's how we feel about Houston too, Scott. 24:14 Todd Bubba Horowitz, our buddy, says, "Too many fall for the hope of turning matchsticks into a lumberyard. Many of the services exploit that hope with phony and false info. 24:22 You guys are great, always learn something listening. Love to take you both to T-Bones." Hey, man, let's go to T-Bones. We're in. T-Bones in Red Rock. We're in. In. Uh, at, uh, I lo- uh, what is this? Uh, I plus money. 24:34 He says, "It's actually, uh..." Oh, talking about the Chance Copperpot tweet. He says, "It's actually sick with the blue check marks, the Photoshop, the stealing plays, claiming it's theirs, et cetera, the fake records. 24:43 If you do share plays with the public and are genuine, it's unnoticed too. Truly a tough grind. I had to watermark my winning tickets so people don't steal them." Wow. 24:50 Oh, it's also even if you, let's say you win a million in a row and then you have, like, a bad week. Yeah. Oh, you'll hear from people. Yeah. 24:56 By the way, the people who want the worst for you, they're always gonna have their opportunity, 'cause you're always gonna have a, a, a, you know, a, a down string, swing at some point. 25:05 So those people, it's like the coward, you know, the, uh, the, uh, what's the, uh, the ani- the courage of anonymity- Oh, yeah... 25:12 sitting behind your computer to wait for somebody to have a bad run and then pounce on them when they do, and then you go silent the other 40 weeks. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's like, wow, you're, you're so amazing. 25:21 Uh, Scott H., "So true about starting out hot and then crapping out. When legalized betting started in Indiana, I started with $50 and in three and a half weeks took it up almost to nine grand. 25:30 Thought I was on the top of the hill, lost most of it over the year. No tax implications though," he said. Chris Heath, "Only time I know I moved the line was UCLA win total. 25:38 Under four and a half plus 120, I put three dimes at Circle Legends Bay, and it moved to plus 115." 25:44 And Montreal Max, "Bill will remember the offshore stories for season win total bets when we would give players two dimes on them while moving lines on that action, but by the end of the season, some bettors we moved off would be tapped out with their agents." 25:55 Yeah. Yeah, in other words, uh, you have, yeah, the, the tickets have to cash, you know, years, uh, not years, months, months later. Yeah. So, um, you know, you have to... 26:04 First of all, when you're betting with a, a local guy or an offshore book, you have to hope they're gonna be around in eight months. That's right. You know? 26:10 Th- there's a lot of things that, reasons why I wouldn't do that. Uh, you have to hope they're gonna be around. 26:16 You have to hope, especially if you're betting positive EV stuff like myself, I'm probably gonna get thrown out if I bet in one of those places in a matter of weeks, so those pending bets are gonna be canceled. 26:26 So it, it's interesting how, uh, yeah, Max has been around. He, he would be a great interview, I tell him, you know. I, I've never met him. Stardust guy he says, yeah. 26:34 He, he has great stories and stuff like that for, for sure. Speaking of stories, you said you had one? I do. First I wanna say Chris just said, Chris Felika just texted. I, I... 26:43 That there was a number for Belmont results. So I never even knew there was... I never really bet horses or got horse results. Before the internet, there was a 976 number for horses too. I did not know that. 26:52 I didn't know that either. So now you can get horse results. But, you know, if, if anyone that's old enough to remember, I used to get so pissed because 27:00 it said, you know, whatever the guy's name was, let's use the Delaware water gap guy, and it says, "Be back in two minutes." And all right, I would time it, and I would call in two and a half minutes. 27:10 [laughs] It's the same recording. Yeah. I have to pay 13 cents now. Oh. I knew my mother was gonna kill me. Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm in high school and I, I, um, the, the phone bill's 80 bucks just for me. 27:18 You know what I mean? Back in the '80s, I mean, it's a lot of money, so. 27:21 But just thinking of that and looking at these things, look at the, all these people that used to, New Jersey just full of gamblers and, and full of- It's amazing. 27:30 We've talked about this before, but the iterations of that through the years, the, the, the call, the 976 numbers. I remember there was a period of time I think for a couple seasons where I had a baseball only pager. 27:39 Oh, yeah, th- they, they, you had a pager. I had a pager too. I don't know where I got it. Where the he- where the hell- I don't, it was this little white thing... where would we get them from? 27:44 I have no idea, but I- I used to have a pager with, with- I lived on that thing for, for years... those pagers were before the internet, or just maybe the internet was just starting or something. Was it? 27:52 I think, you know, I think one of the offshore sports books, if you signed up with them, they would send you a pager, I believe. Maybe that was it. 27:59 And they, this is like '98, we're playing with Rick's Sports Book or- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah... they, they sent me a pager. 28:03 Or, or, or ESB or something would, you know, wound up, wound up stiffing people in the end, by the way, um, English sports betting. But they, they'd send you a pager. 28:10 Feels like a heritage thing or s- something like that. Really? I don't know. And they're, they're, they're still around- Yeah... all these years later. Uh. All these years later. The, so, but that was, I mean- Yeah... 28:18 and then there- Forgot about sports pagers... then there would be, like, a, you knew the in- you knew the rhythm of the baseball score update, so you knew by their next sentence- Right... if runs had been scored. Right. 28:29 Like, you just think about all these nuances that only those of us- [laughs]... who have bet for so long remember these little quirks that they would have. It's amazing that- Top of the ninth. That's it. Right? 28:39 They would do stuff like that, and then by the next sentence you would know if your team or the team you were fading had scored the way that they, 'cause they almost started it a different way. 28:46 How many people that are listening to us- Oh, my-... used to curse these radio stations? Oh, my God. In other words, they start off with, "And the Yankees lost in the ninth inning." 28:55 [laughs] Wait a minute, you just said the Yankees first. Oh, Jesus. You can't do that to me. Like, you know, oh, my God, it was, it was unbelievable. And Randy McKay just said it was BetMaker when I got my pager. 29:04 BetMaker, yeah. He just text, text me. I forgot about BetMaker. Yeah. Yeah. They, they used to give us pagers. Uh, first before I go into a story, I, I told Gil I was on a plane going through my old, uh, notes and stuff. 29:13 I had like 40-some things to talk about here, never got to, down to like 38. However, I found 11 different stories. I said, "You know what? Maybe I should j-..." 29:21 I when, when I took a note from, from somebody or took notes from someone that's a legendary in the business and I was with them or t- talking to them, and I just put a little thing on my phone. 29:30 I put them all together, so I'm gonna give like one a week of, of doing that. I love it. 29:33 But before I get to that, uh, by the way, today's story, I'm starting right out with a, with like a, a home run, bases loaded home run, bottom of the ninth World Series. Shot heard around the world, to be honest. 29:43 That's how good this story is. Oh, man. Um, but really should be last. Now I wanna read someone's tweet. Dennis Dupuis, a big, big, uh, he always r- tweets out good stuff. 29:52 "Only those who at 21 years old, ex- 21 years experience winning then losing thousands back in the day only to walk 30:00 home 12 miles in the cold rain and eat oatmeal until payday understand the importance of discipline and money management." Yes. 30:07 I used to, when I was doing those runs with my buddies, 17, 18, running out of gas, I ran out of gas. My Uncle Benny gave me a, a Chrysler 440 four barrel, beautiful car, and I ruined the car. 30:19 It was the brand new, seats in the back were still pl- brand new. I remember that. I ran out of gas on the way home with my buddies. I just remember that. And, um, so this person's right, but I, I, listen- We were kids. 30:30 We didn't have any responsibilities. We, we had homes to go to or, or living with our parents. Um, but people are very sick when it comes to gambling. Lots of people, not everybody. 30:40 You know, not, not the listener on this show, though, at least not now. If someone's tuning into your show, I always say it's the more astute people in the gaming space. 30:49 So, but every dollar has to go for gambling with a certain clientele of people. 30:55 It's amazing, like, you know, we used to say certain, certain areas of the, of the New York, of New York and the Bowery and stuff, these people would come down on buses and they would live like 12 in an apartment, but yet they'd go, go down to Atlantic City and blow like four grand, five grand, eight... 31:09 This is back in the '80s and '90s. Like, every dollar had to go for gambling, every single dollar you have. And when you come to Las Vegas, I even know some people, and one of them's listening, he's my buddy. 31:23 He's a, he's a great guy. I love him to death and, and, um, he, he's okay w- w- but, you know, like, uh, financially, but like... So he'll deliver Uber Eats or there's another one called DoorDash- DoorDash... 31:37 and work so hard, you know, working 70, 80 hours a week, and then come to Vegas and he has like 2,000 in free play. I'm like, "Wait, hold, time out. 2,000 in free play? 31:48 How can you possibly have $2,000 in free play at this property?" And it's because he spends every dollar that he saved up for those three months, comes in with like 10, 12, 15 grand, and bl- blows it all. 32:02 Man, or, or maybe get lucky and get even, or God forbid you hit a jackpot or something. Like, it, it's just the, the mentality of you work so hard running around. Uber Eats has gotta be a tough job. 32:13 I just seen New York State, like they, they, they sued, the Uber Eats drivers su- sued because Uber Eats was stealing from them. They, Uber makes the bulk of the money. 32:21 It's a shame what happens with these companies that deliver food, and you're taking your own life in your hands sometimes. I'm not trying to be overdramatic, but, you know, people don't tip you, they don't see it. 32:30 It's, these are tough jo- By the way, I've worked these kind of jobs when I was a kid, so I understand, but it's amazing the mentality of just let's save all that money, go to Vegas, and blow it all. 32:40 My, my Uncle Bobby's the best example. Kingsbury Boardwalk, Work- Monmouth County, uh, he had a, he had stands, he had, uh, penny stand, nickel stand. 32:47 Nickel stands that, candy and toy wheels, games of chance, and he had a few of them. He would save up all of his money from them, three, four months, and he lived with his mom. You understand? 32:57 They, we came from the Bronx, so, you know, people in the Bronx, it's like a lot of places in South Philly. 33:02 These, these people all, um, gamble real high and live with their mother in their basement until they're like, you know, 80. 33:08 Until then, you know, they die and they take over the, the housing project, you know, the, the, the, the row house. And I'm not... Like I said, I, I grew up like this, so I understand. 33:15 But my Uncle Bobby, he would save up all his money from those nickel and dime stands on the boardwalk and blow it all gambling the rest of the year. Came to Las Vegas with $5,000 back in 1980. 33:26 Ton of money, and my aunt, his sister, dropped him off at the airport. That night they had to call the police, they thought someone was breaking into the house. Oh. It was him returning. [laughs] Oh, no. 33:34 He's supposed to be here for a week. He blew the 5,000 before the luggage hit the room. Oh. Like I think of my Uncle Bobby, and God bless him. 33:39 He, he's passed away now, but, um, it was just that our, we, it was in our bones. It was in our blood. Yeah. We just gambled every penny. We didn't know any better. The, the pressure was off when we were broke. 33:49 All right, listen, I'm sorry I, I went off like this. No, no. When we come back from the break, though, the story. The story is gonna be like, wow, no way. For us, people in the gambling space, are gonna be, "Come on." 34:00 But if you're a normal person, a regular people, which we are not, y- yeah, I understand it a little bit more. None of us are normal here. We celebrate it. 34:09 Story cu- story time with Bill next on a Numbers Game at VSi, the sports betting network. 34:14 [upbeat music] A Numbers Game on VSi, the sports betting network. 34:30 Back on the Numbers Game unscripted with the Crack Man, Bill Krackenberger, @Kra- what's your Twitter handle? @BillCrackMan. @BillCrackMan with a K. Yep, for God's sakes. I already forgot. 34:39 @BillCrackMan with a K on Twitter. Wisecracks is a podcast which he does with John Orlando every week. Uh, does such a great job. We got Tweets reading the book, Vegas regular. The ATS sports pager was legendary. 34:50 Yes, it was. ATS. I forgot about that. That's it. Sweet, Sweet Lou Monaco, Jersey City based sports ticker provided all the scores to sports phone pagers in the casinos. 34:58 Vegas casinos had to go through us to confirm final scores before payouts. Ernie Bear was our Vegas liaison. Wow. Love my man, Crack. Love it. Yeah. 35:05 Uh, Holy Buckeye, Kirk Chamberlain at Kirk Sports, uh, before the interweb, Southern California had a 900 number you could call that had the replay of the race call for horses. Can't remember the cause. 35:13 Jesus, 900 numbers. Wasn't there an old Roxy or Chrissy Andrews story about how, like, they would have a fake call of a horse race also? No way. Yeah, there was some story, but I can't remember the exact date. Really? 35:25 Jesus. Flare1, I recall 900-976-1313 played sports scores on news for a fee. And Real Knicks, "I once ran up a $600 phone bill calling gambling lines as a teen. 35:34 My mom yelled at me 'cause she thought I was calling phone sex. I didn't know what was worse, agreeing I was a pervert or admit I was a ga- gambler- Right. [laughs]... who'd be borrowing money off her by Wednesday." 35:43 We, as you were telling those stories, though, we were just talking about this off air. The, the, 35:47 the, the, the memories that go on a loop in your head, and for whatever reason, me and my [laughs] this called up, uh, Reza's listening, in San Francisco, and this is in the '90s, we would meet the guy on a str- on a corner in San Francisco, Townsend Street, by the way, for those who are, who know San Francisco. 36:03 This is where, that's where KBL was at the time. And I remember there were times where we, where we had to pay and we'd be like, "Are we gonna, are we gonna pay this? Are we, are we gonna pay it? Are we gonna stiff him?" 36:12 But because we wanted to keep going- Right... so of course we did. Yeah. 36:15 And then I'll never forget the time I was owed, and the guy actually had the nerve to say to me, he's like- "Hey, you don't mind if I, like, uh, delay it a couple of weeks? We just, we just roll you over." 36:23 I'm like, "Yeah, I mind." You can't do that. Yeah, I mind, huh? The bookmaker d- didn't- Yes. Oh, you can't do that. 36:29 But you s- 'Cause that gives you an open door now to always do it to him You, you have not lived until you have those experiences with this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. 36:35 I mean, now in 2026, it happens all the time, 'cause every, every, everyone at a, at a poker table, you'll find every poker table in Las Vegas, there's a guy that thinks he's a bookmaker or a kid that thinks he's a bookmaker. 36:45 But back then, there was more of a sense of honor back then- Yes, yes... during, in the early '90s with bookmakers than there are now- Yeah... with all the PPH shops. That's actually shocking to hear that. 36:53 Well, the, the PPH stuff, I mean, that's a whole new culture, right? That's a whole new culture. Where it's like there's webs of payments and- Sure... 36:58 it's sort of more standard to, you, you can m- roll over, that kind of... But back in the day when it was human versus human, you never did that kind of stuff. Yeah. It was like, Monday's the day. Yeah. Yeah. 37:08 Of course, Monday. Fast pay makes lasting friends. Monday or Tuesday, I guess- Yeah... on Monday Night Football was it. No, no, no, d- definitely Tuesday because- Tuesday... in New York anyway- Yeah... 37:16 it was that way on the West Coast? New York, Monday ended the week. After the Monday night- That's right... bailout game, Monday Night Football- [laughs] It's bailout game... then Tuesday was settle. Yeah. 37:24 Is that the way it worked out here too? Yeah. Did, did your ga- It was Monday... did your weeks go from, from Tuesday to Monday? It always included Monday night, yeah. Wow, yeah, that, I thought- Yeah... 37:30 that was only like a New York thing. You know, like- It always included Monday night... New Jersey. The reason I remember that, 'cause I can remember distinctly like a Dante Culpepper Vikings game- Oh, God... 37:38 that goes your way. Like, you have these memories as a- Right... as an early gambler. Right, to get out. All right. But again, the, but the point being with all that, I had a responsibility. Yeah. 37:45 That was when I was in my, like, 20s. Right. Uh, y- bro, you, could you imagine having access at an earlier age? It's just not a good thing. Sure. Anyway, your, your story, sir. 37:55 So, um, o- over at Turnberry, I met a friend about seven, eight years ago. He's in his mid-80s now. 38:03 Uh, but I seen him down in the lobby every day, dressed up so well, like almost like Ace Rothstein suits and colors and oranges and greens and I, I'd just seen him so many times in the lobby reading the newspapers, and that's what, w- when we were kids, that's what we used to have, the New York News, Daily News, and the New York Post. 38:18 Every day, had to have both papers, and it just reminded me of that when I seen him in the lobby every day. Finally I got the nerve up to ask him, I said, "Sir, w- what do you do? 38:26 Like, you [laughs], you're down here every day. You're like s-," you know, in his late 70s. He said, "I do nothing." I said, "You're dressed up every day." He said, "It's all I have is suits." 38:33 I mean, literally like, like, uh, what's, Goodfellas, Henry going through his suits, the suit closet. That's what he had. I, I actually wound up seeing his closets after I got to be good friends with him. But 38:43 he used to be partners in a casino here in town. He's owned, uh, many restaurants, dozens and dozens of restaurants, including some of the most, uh, successful ones in the world. 38:53 So, but his stories of owning, uh, being partners in a casino here back in the '70s was a great, great stories. I documented them. I have them on recording on about 10 or 15 of them, which he let me tape them. 39:06 I said, "You know, I'll never remember these, so you gotta tell me some of these things." So, you know, uh, being a casino owner back in mob era times had to be unbelievable. 39:15 And sure enough, just some of his Palazzolo stories and stuff and, uh. But this particular one, I'm starting right out with the home run here, I told you. This is unbelievable. 39:23 So he goes away, they say to college, but he goes away for a couple of years because of his affiliation with the casino here and some ties back east. 39:33 Goes away to, uh, Lompoc, which is somewhere in northern Cal- or, I, I don't know, it's in California somewhere, Southern California, I think. Lompoc. 39:40 Goes away, and he's, he's, uh, hitting golf balls into the ocean and, you know, it's like a, one of those kind of jails where you bring the food in- Mm-hmm... you're cooking. 39:47 You know, if you're a wealthy guy, you have everyone on the payroll. And goes away and meets someone that was a career criminal and finally got caught being a bank robber. He was a bank robber. 39:58 And, um, he winds up, they, they got, wind up being real close friends in jail, both f- millionaires, and, uh, they get out together and talk about some things and got to be real close out of jail. 40:11 And, uh, the families knew each other for the next 10 years. The guy dies 10 years later. He died around 1990. Uh, he, he dies, and, um, 40:22 he gets a phone call from the, the, the, the guy, the c- the bank robber's daughter. Let's call him bank robber, that's what he was. But, um, from his daughter, who's a lawyer now, and by the way, the son, both, 40:33 d- daughter and son are both lawyers today. You know, you, you don't want your kids to follow in your, in your w- in your foot trails, in your footsteps. So they say, "Can we see you? We have to see you." 40:44 You know, this is after the, the father dies. He goes over to the house, says, "Yeah, we have a problem. We only trust someone like you. We know how close you were to Dad. We have $19 and a half million in cash." 40:57 [laughs] He's like, "What?" He said, "I knew your dad had a lot of cash, I just..." Then he goes, "Well, we're trusting you with this. We don't want the money." 41:06 He's like, "Well, what do you mean you don't want the money?" You know, and he, he's like, uh, went, he goes, "[sighs] We, we're, we're afraid of this money. 41:13 We don't know what to do with it, and, uh, we wanna turn it in." And we'll, they- they're thinking that, you know, if they turn it in and say, "Hey, this is, my dad had this money in a couple boxes. 41:23 He gave us the keys, and here it is. And, you know, can we, maybe you guys take some of it, the government, and we take some back." And of course, my man with the vowel at the end of his name says- [laughs]... 41:33 "Are you out of your mind?" [laughs] You outta your- "You can't turn that in. You know, uh, y- you just can't turn, you're gonna just give the government $19 and a half million in cash?" What are you doing? 41:42 And what are you do- like, but Gil, the listeners of this show, you, me, even the guys in the back, we're all around gambling and money and, and knock around guys here. 41:54 Of course we're gonna say that, but regular people are scared to death of cash. Yeah. Think about this, 1990, it's, by the way, there were older bills, too. He, he did mention that. 42:05 He goes, "Well- Oh, that's interesting... a lot of these bills are 10, 15, 20 years old." That's right. 42:09 Uh, you know, they, they, they're, they're, they're very old bills and we, we just, we, we wanna do the right thing here. And he's like, "No, you can't turn the money in. You cannot do that. 42:16 Trust me, there's ways to get rid of, there's way, you go on vaca-" Back then you could use cash much easier than now. This is 35 years ago. 42:24 Now, th- with, with the CTRs, the, the, the, uh, what, know your customer laws, today it would be almost impossible. But I'm still not turning it in. But, but anyway Hell no. No, uh, this is an unbelievable story. 42:36 They turned the money in- Oh... and got nothing back. What a zero. Zero dollars. 42:42 Now they're both lawyers, both successful, and, um, you know, if, if I didn't hear it from them, uh, from one of the pe- one of those people, and from, from the, the person that told me this, I just, like, I knew people would be like, "What? 42:55 How can you..." Again, this is our audience here, the gambling audience though. What do you do with $19.5 million in cash in 1990? I, I, you know, [laughs] just saying, like- Yeah... 43:08 this is sick money this guy actually had. I guess no one knew. Even his best friend in life didn't know, so. 43:14 What, w- this calls to mind every once in a while, um, if you go look at, uh, homes for sale or condos for sale or condos for rent in San Francisco, I'm sure this exists in other towns too, but every once in a while you'll go to one, an open house, and it'll be like, "Oh, look at this beautiful views of the bay and the Golden Gate Bridge," and all this stuff, and then you realize what? 43:34 I'll be like, "Who, who, but why is it like this? Why, why are all the walls down? Why did people strip all the walls and the ceiling and the-" Yes. 43:41 They're like, "Oh, we just, you know, we wanted to really show it at its, uh, at its, its core bones and give the buyer a chance or the ren- you know, a chance to redo the whole thing." 43:52 And my brain immediately goes to this. Right. What you're talking about, which is- Right... somebody probably had some stuff in the walls- Sure... that they needed to get. Sure. 43:59 And the- There was a lot of cash around back then. Yeah. Yeah, there was a ton of... People had tons of cash back in the day, and you think that right away, and now that you're saying that, now I know what you mean. 44:07 Yeah. That's amazing. 'Cause I'm like, "Th- I don't buy this explanation at all." Think about all the money that people would bury and stuff and all the cash. 44:14 And I know my grand- my w- when my grandfather passed away, we had a Maxwell House coffee can that was buried under the garage. 44:20 [laughs] And my grandmother said, "You have to go get that can," and to my dad, and they dug it up and there was like 16 grand in the can. 44:25 I just thought about like, how about if grandma, something happened to grandma, no one knew. How about something happened to them together? 44:30 How many people in this country have lost money that's just missing for a lifetime? Yeah. If something happened to them together, no one would've known that 16,000 was buried in the yard back in 1980. 44:39 Like, like, they, he didn't trust banks. He went through the Great Depression. He did not trust banks. 19 and a half million. 19 and a half million. Yeah. Here, take it back. Take it back. They, they d- they, they... 44:50 It was so much pressure, they lived better. They lived, you know? [laughs] They lived, lived peace of mind. Peace of mind. Man. Pisses me off. They ain't like you and me. No. Bill, thank you. 45:00 [laughs] Bill Krackenberger, the return of... Thank you so much for listening. Prop Points with Jeff Erickson, Nick Whelan, next on VSAN, the sports betting network. [upbeat music]
