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Jul 29, 2024
A Numbers Game | July 29, 2024 | Hour 2
A Numbers Game | July 29, 2024 | Hour 2
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44:44
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Transcript
0:00
[upbeat music] The numbers told the story, they always do. He's one of those idiots who believe in analytics. This is a numbers game with Gil Alexander on VSiN. Good morning, everybody.
0:11
This is a numbers game, Monday morning, hour number two. I'm Jarrett Smith in for Gil Alexander today. Kelly Bidlin, of course, with us as well.
0:18
And joining us now, we're usually talking hockey, but we're gonna switch gears a little bit with this gentleman. Jake Hahn, co-host of The Point and the Fantasy Hockey Show on Sirius XM NHL.
0:27
Follow him at, uh, jhahn4, uh, on X. Um, uh, Jake, let's, uh, switch gears here because, uh, obviously hockey is n- he's not playing right now, so we can't really get the, a- any of your thoughts there.
0:38
But we can get your thoughts about the Olympics. Um, and we start with golf, because I, I'll be honest, it, th- this is tough and it...
0:45
First, walk me through the format of what it's like for golf, the course, like all the course history, the format, and I know that's a big part of it.
0:52
Um, but is this u- more unique than, let's say, a regular tournament on a, on a regular weekend, or is this something that takes a little bit extra layer of handicapping to get into? I think you almost treat it...
1:02
And tha- thanks for having me. Great to be back with you guys as well. And like you said, even no hockey, there's still plenty going on right now. You got baseball every day. We got the Olympics in, in full swing now.
1:10
So it's, it's a great summer, I think, to, to be a sports fan, especially with the soccer behind us now as well.
1:15
I think, at least for me from a handicapping perspective, I would treat this tournament sort of like the, the smaller field events that we see on the PGA, uh, Tour th- this year.
1:25
Uh, except the fact that the, the back end of the field isn't quite what you'd see at the back end of those PGA fields, right? Where you'd get 50 or so guys that are all really good.
1:34
You know, close to the top 50-ish golfers in the world. Now you're seeing some of the best golfers in the world.
1:38
Obviously, the front end of the field is very strong, uh, loaded with the top American players that are all either the favorites or close to being the favorites.
1:46
But it's the back end of the field that you can kind of cut down and just say, well, these guys don't really have a shot a- at winning a medal or winning a gold medal specifically, and, and actually winning this tournament outright.
1:55
So there's probably 10 to 15 players o- off the back end that you can cut out of this. Uh, and I think you could really treat it as one of those smaller field events.
2:03
So I'm gonna be looking towards the middle of the pack here, guys. I'm looking at elite players, uh, that you'd get in that numbers range at a major golf tournament, for example.
2:12
I- and I'll just throw one name at you right off the top. Hideki Matsuyama, who's hovering around 30 to 1. You're gonna get Hideki at 30 to 1 in most major fields.
2:21
Um, you know, especially the Masters, a tournament that he's been great at, he's obviously won at. Uh, 30 to 1, I think for Hideki, is a very fair price.
2:28
For the quality of player, a guy that can, that can beat elite fields, that can go toe-to-toe with elite players in a final round, uh, and win and seems to step up in big events, I think getting him at 30 to 1 in a, a small field event like this, uh, when that, those are the types of prices we're getting him at in full field major events, that, those are the types of prices that are really gonna interest me for this tournament.
2:48
Yeah, Jake, uh, and, and, and just to clear up format for everybody, it is kind of, it's normal stroke play, four rounds, so it, it's really...
2:55
Uh, you know, if you do handicap golf week to week, there's, there's really not much of a switch over. You're basically just got a golf tournament that's happening in France, uh, this week.
3:02
I think those were good, good comps, uh, made by you for at least the odds board. I think just the odds board in general is kind of interesting to look at. Do you think you're...
3:10
Because there's that lack of talent on the back end, it does, I feel like I've heard a lot of people going kind of to that mid-range on the board.
3:18
Is that where you think you're gonna be looking at, uh, for a lot of your bets? I think that's probably where I start my card.
3:23
Now, I mean, obviously, guys, it's, it'd be very easy for me to make a case for any of the, the top names on your board right there.
3:29
I, I mean, uh, the, the gold medal likely to go to a, an American player here with some of these names and the form that they have coming in. I mean, Xander Schauffele, the season that he's having right now, two majors.
3:39
Obviously, Scottie Scheffler, we know he's the best player in the world as well. Uh, and Collin Morikawa is a guy that's stepped up at, at every big event this year and has been in contention as well.
3:47
So there's three Americans right there, uh, that I think should be in contention for that gold medal.
3:52
But I just think when we're looking at odds, we're trying to find value, it's tough to find value in any of those numbers, uh, right now.
3:58
So I think the, and I, I mentioned Hideki as a name I'm gonna be very interested in in that 30 to 1 range.
4:03
Uh, Viktor Hovland's another really interesting name, uh, to me that I, I still think he's an elite talent that's just having an off year.
4:10
So I'm seeing him as, as, you know, you can get as good of a price as about 25 to 1 on him. Uh, he's a name I might hover around, uh, for a while as well.
4:17
And I don't want to completely disregard, Kelly, the, the bottom of the board. Obviously, there's some names you look at and go, "Okay, I've never even heard of this guy. I don't even know what country he's from."
4:25
[laughs] "So I'm probably not going to bet him." Uh, but I am, I am Canadian. I, I've got to get a little bit of, uh, let's sprinkle some Canadian bias in on here. Okay. Uh, Nick Taylor. Nick Taylor, 150 to 1.
4:35
Probably not for the outright, uh, but maybe find a, a two metal bet or a top five bet, something like that. He's just a guy, again, I, I trust against big names.
4:44
Uh, ever since his win in Scottsdale this year, he has tapered off.
4:47
He doesn't come in with the best form, uh, so that's why he's down there at 150 to 1 and, and maybe not in that, you know, 65, 70 to 1 range if he came in with some better form.
4:56
But I like Nick Taylor, I think he's a guy that, that can find it. Uh, and if he does, I do trust him against the top players if, if he gets in contention, uh, uh, in, in the final round.
5:06
Jake, let's move to the tennis, uh, tournament here. Um, I actually did, uh, make a bet on Coco Gauff to win the women's tennis gold. Um, Iga Świątek is the big favorite there.
5:17
On the men's side, obviously Carlos Alcaraz, big favorite, some other familiar names. Let, let's start with the women. Uh, is Coco live? Can anyone up Iga, who's, like, a $2 favorite to win this thing?
5:27
No, I think she, I think she's very live. I actually think that's a, that's a solid bet. Now, obviously, we know how great Iga is on, on the dirt, and this is, this is where she wins. I mean, she never loses.
5:36
Uh, so it is tough to go up against her. But I think at this point, she's just been priced out, out of the range for me personally.
5:42
I, I understand why people might want to still bet her because it, at this point, does sort of feel like free money because she is that good.
5:49
Uh, but Coco's the, the type of player, I think there's only a handful of players that could probably go toe-to-toe with her on clay and actually win, and Coco Gauff would, would certainly be, uh, one of them.
5:58
So yeah, you look at the rest of that board and, uh, you know- Uh, Pa- Paolini is somebody I have to give a lot of credit for, uh, coming on this year, but just not someone I'm interested at backing, uh, at that number.
6:09
I- as, as great of a season and as nice of a form as she comes in, I just don't see her being able to beat Iga, uh, on, on this surface.
6:16
So, uh, I think Coco's the only name you could really go to and say, "Yeah, I, you know, I feel pretty good about that."
6:21
Uh, the rest of these names, I don't see a lot of, uh, a lot of, uh, women that are, could, could go toe-to-toe with her on clay. So I, I think Coco's a, a solid play at that number.
6:32
Uh, on the men's side, it, does it look like Alcaraz is kind of running away with this thing, or do you think there's gonna be some pushback? I think there could be some pushback.
6:40
I mean, it's, it's a difficult ask to, to, to, to rack this back again, and obviously there's the pre- it's a little bit of a different pressure, I think, competing for, for a gold medal.
6:48
It's, it's hard to compare it to a Grand Slam, but it's something different, at least something that maybe he hasn't experienced, and, uh, you don't know if maybe that mentally affects him as we get deeper into the tournament.
6:58
So I, I'm certainly not saying it's any sort of, of layup. And, and Novak Djokovic, I don't know how much we read into his matchup against Rafael Nadal this morning.
7:06
Obviously, you know, years ago we would look at that as, uh, you know, a top end premier matchup and, and Rafa's not what he used to be and, and he, you know, he's clearly at the end of his career now.
7:16
Uh, but the fact that Novak beat him the, i- in the way that he did, uh, you know, maybe raises my eyebrows a little bit and says, "Oh, okay, maybe, maybe Joker's here to, uh, to claim his gold medal as well."
7:26
So as much as Alcaraz obviously deserves to be the favorite here, guys, uh, Novak Djokovic, I, I think he's, he's got a legitimate shot to, uh, to take home the gold medal here.
7:35
Jake Kahn, co-host of The Point fantasy hockey show on SiriusXM NHL. Jake, um, it, the rest of the Olympics, have you been interested?
7:45
I mean, I know that there's no hockey at this Olympics, so unfortunately we can't- Yeah... get involved on the ice. But you can bet on pretty much every sport.
7:54
I know tennis and golf are sports we're used to betting on, but, uh, have you in, invested in any of the non, uh, uh, I would call them traditional sports, um, as the field just gets completely opened up, uh, for us to have some fun here, uh, with this, uh, couple of week stretch in Paris?
8:11
Yeah, like you said, I think for me, especially in these early days with t- with tennis starting right away, I'm gonna gravitate towards the sports that I actually already handicap. I'm comfortable with the names.
8:20
I, I know the athletes. So, um, I have been betting the tennis these, these first couple of days and, and it's been great, and we get the golf coming up this weekend as well.
8:27
So I think once the tennis maybe winds down a little bit, I'll look into, to some of these o- other sports and, you know, hey, uh, you go out there and, and try to find someone that actually knows what, what they're talking about with some of these sports and, and really get into the, into the numbers.
8:40
I do like to get in on the swimming, uh, guys. Okay. I, I think the, you know, the swimming is one that I, I just, I enjoy watching it.
8:46
You know, I think you can, uh, find some value, but obviously you do get these, these stud athletes that end up just dominating and, and winning, you know, every type o- of discipline.
8:54
So, uh, I, I did watch, uh, a little bit of the swimming over the weekend, was rooting on our, our Canadian girl, Summer McIntosh, who took home the, uh, the silver medal. So she's somebody I m- I might get into backing.
9:04
Uh, the soccer as well, I mean, uh, a- again, from a Canadian perspective, it's been fascinating with the, the penalty to the women's soccer team getting docked, uh, six points for the- Cheaters. Oh, yeah, right.
9:14
The, the whole- Classic Canadian cheaters. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, classic Canadians, right? And then, uh- Send 'em to Tim Horton's... uh, well, and then coming out and beating France the way that they did. Yeah.
9:24
Um, you know, this team kind of maybe, maybe rallying around that a little bit because, uh, this team's being punished for something that happened in the past and I, you know, I, I think there's a lot of athletes there that think, you know, "I, I had nothing to do with this.
9:34
I, you know, I, I, I came here to compete. I came here to try to win a medal." Um, and they've put themselves in position where they can actually qualify now, uh, through to the next round.
9:43
So I, I think that's actually a fascinating story with, with everything that's gone on there. Jake, we appreciate the time, pal. I know you're excited about hockey season.
9:50
We'll let you get back to the hockey handicapping. Oh. Good luck with tennis and golf as we continue to move forward with the Olympics, and swimming. Apparently he's a big swimming...
9:56
We'll have him back in a couple weeks, right, when the swimming comes in, in the big, right, hot and heavy. Keep that in mind there, Kelly. They're going right now. Yeah. They're going right now. They're going.
10:03
The Kelly- Yeah, yeah... I have no idea. They're swimming. I haven't watched much of the Olympics over the last couple of days. I've been- I feel like they swim from start to finish... losing too many Nerfies.
10:09
But I could be wrong. They probably do, so there's so many swimming Nerfs. No, no, swimming early and then track late, I believe is the big thing. Oh, track- Yeah... is the late one, yeah. Good stuff, Jake.
10:16
I like, I like, I like that you said you've been losing on, on the Nerfies. It's been a, it's been a tough go for the Nerfies lately, but, uh, you know- The last week's been rough...
10:23
you gotta, you gotta stick with, stick with the process, uh, right? If, if I'm to leave you with, uh, with one baseball team- Okay...
10:28
uh, to keep in mind here, guys, because I am a big baseball guy as well, uh, the San Diego Padres I think are a team to, to watch out for in the outright market. If you look at their August schedule, very, very gettable.
10:38
They got a couple games with the Dodgers this week. I think they're gonna get aggressive here with some trades. They, I mean, they already have, bringing in a, a reliever.
10:45
So Padres is a, a future ticket I'm looking to get in on here, guys. Padres to have the most wins in August, maybe will be on the board. We're gonna do that. Oh.
10:53
We're gonna do that a little bit later in the week as we get close to the new month, 'cause that's a very popular show here on the program. Uh, a popular guest here on the program.
11:00
Jake Kahn, we appreciate the time as always, pal. Thanks. Thanks, boys. Enjoy the Olympics and the Nerfies. Great stuff. [upbeat rock music] Yes, I will have a Nerfie for...
11:08
I, I have one, of course, he joins us via the Progressive Gas Line. I do have one Nerfie that I'm looking at today. It just crossed the threshold for odds where I wanna play it, um, in a good way. Oh, okay. All right.
11:19
And I'll explain that process a little bit later in the show. There's a certain number that once we go past, I like to s- I like to actually bet.
11:28
I'm actually not afraid to, to give up a few pennies of juice, 'cause I wanna see if it gets to this certain number.
11:33
Uh, we'll talk about that game and we'll talk about some breaking news in baseball on the other side of Numbers Game.
11:39
[upbeat rock music] A Numbers Game on VSiN Sports Betting Network Breaking news: our College Football Guide is getting released on Thursday.
12:07
I know, it's very exciting. I wrote up two, uh, uh, bets for the weekend, uh, uh, on it, both plus money. Um, I'm actually, I'll be honest, maybe we'll give out one of them this week. Maybe on Wednesday. Oh.
12:17
Maybe on Wednesday, or on Thursday.
12:18
You'll be gone, but maybe on Thursday when the College Football Guide drops, um, I'll, I'll give a, a sneak preview, because it's a fantastic resource for the upcoming college football season.
12:27
Previews of 134 teams, top 25 power ratings, everything. Betting systems, you name it, you got it. Um, if you sign up now, you'll get the early bird price of 175 bucks.
12:36
You can also sign up for a monthly subscription, get your first 30 days for only $19 to see everything VSiN has to up your game. Don't miss out on the pre-season deals, vsin.com/subscribe. Thank you, JCon, great stuff.
12:47
Uh, Olympic golf tournament starts Wednesday? Thursday? When does it start? Thursday. It tr- it's really like a- Wow... that's right, it's kind of a normal golf week. It's, [laughs] it's kind of- Yeah...
12:55
it's kind of weird. I, no real huge format change, which I don't, I don't- And no other tournaments, right? This is the only tournament happening this week? I think so. I mean, there i- nothing else on the PGA Tour.
13:04
I- Yeah... I, I don't think anything else, 'cause I mean, every other tour I would think is kind of observing this- Is kind of conglomer- Or, yeah... conglomerating all the players together Or participating in it. Yeah.
13:12
Yeah. It's, uh, I don't know about the format. Like, I kinda w- as a golf bettor, as a golf bettor, I like the idea that they're not changing formats, right? And you're just kinda sticking to the same schedule- Sure...
13:23
format that we normally would. I feel like if I was just an Olympics fan, though, I'd wanna see more match play w- uh, with these guys going against each other. Yeah, I thought it was match play.
13:32
That's why when I was asking Jake the format, I didn't, I didn't know where he was gonna go with that, 'cause I thought it was individual match play. Yeah, honestly, I don't remember from 20- what was it?
13:38
2016 I think was the first year that they had it- Yeah... out in Rio. I don't remember what the original format was when it was still played in the summer. Has it been popular, the t- the two Olympics they've had it?
13:46
Has it been an event that people have cared about? I don't really remember the 2020 one in Tokyo.
13:51
I'm like, I bet, like, I bet Xander that, uh, that tournament, so that was nice to actually have, like, a winning Xander ticket. But it, it's a good question.
13:58
But the, I feel like I, the- You've had a bunch of them lately... I, I feel, yeah, exactly.
14:01
[laughs] I feel like when I keep bringing up questions about the Olympics, I'm get- I'm getting the correct pushback, where Dustin was doing this to me yesterday. Yeah.
14:07
Like, like, has anybody noticed the arenas in Paris? Like, have you watched any of the fencing or anything by any chance? No. It's, like, inside of a museum. It looks gorgeous. Oh, that's cool.
14:17
And, and I was kind of freaking out about it. Well, I saw the beach volleyball with the, with the Eiffel Tower behind it, with the silhouette, was really cool.
14:22
So, yeah, I- It's a pretty cool place to have an Olympics, I'm not gonna lie...
14:25
uh, 'cause Dustin did point out to me that, yes, Paris is a little bit of an upgrade from what we [laughs] where we've been at the past few Olympics. From Tokyo and Rio. Paris.
14:32
[laughs] And it's, it's not a knock on those places. No, not at all. I just think, I just think when I, when I close my eyes and think of, like, a romance- Right, right, right. [laughs]...
14:40
like, like scenics- Well, and-... I think of the Eiffel Tower and- And when we're talking golf-... the Arc de Triomphe...
14:45
yeah, and when we're talking golf, yes, it's gotten far more popul- i- it's f- gotten far more popular in Japan over, you know, r- recently. Golf has definitely gotten more popular in Japan.
14:52
But, but, like, it's been a- It's not that popular in France, frankly... well, it's not that popular in Brazil. No. [laughs] But, like, I mean, it's been a stalwart in, in Europe forever. I mean- Yeah...
14:59
uh, since the beginning of time. So this is, it just- Yeah, just France seems to be where, France, I, do, who is a, can I name a French golfer? Pavon, right? He's- Yeah, Matthieu Pavon, yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:07
Pavon, that's the only French golfer that I think I can name. Antoine Rozner? I don't think I know that guy. I think he's French. I have no idea. I'm pretty sure. [laughs] Sound- it sounds French.
15:14
I've just never heard of him before. Um, all right. I, let's follow up briefly with some baseball breaking news. Oh, I did make two bets while we, while we were rambling about golf. Oh, yeah.
15:23
Oh, yeah, you, and you, you, it's funny, the, in the break, he's like, "I wanna give out two bets." [laughs] Let's forgot about that.
15:26
And we had this whole golf conversation five minutes into the segment, he didn't give out any bets. So I will get, w- w- Please, what are you betting on?
15:32
Wednesday I will do a more thorough handic- uh, handicap on, on the entire tournament. Uh, we do have long shots coming up this week, too. Matt West and I- Nice...
15:38
will be diving into the tournament for everybody, um, at home. So we will be talking about it there. I did make a couple bets, though, yesterday. Just wanted to get in front of some number moves.
15:48
Uh, Jake brought him up, Colin Morikawa. I've said it on this show before, I'm not really backing down from betting Morikawa till he wins at this point. [laughs] Yeah.
15:55
It's kind of where I'm at with him at this particular point in the season. He's g- he's been playing so well. I did, I saw a 14 here in town, and I decided that that was good enough for me.
16:05
I will at least jump in to 14 and one. Didn't bet either one of these heavy, 'cause I wanna see where s- uh, again, kind of a typical golf week, so these markets will, you know, this is kind of like a major, right?
16:14
You know how with Masters get, Masters odds get hung for months, right? Yeah. Somebody's been up for a month or so. So there's been even in the market for a while. And they're gonna flip on week of a little bit. Yeah.
16:22
So I, so I did bet these. I didn't bet them super heavy, though. It's Morikawa 14 to one, and then Jon Rahm. Uh, he was someone I bet, I, I bet him at the British Open.
16:31
Um, liked where he was coming in, coming in with his game there. We had been waiting all year for him to finally win on Liv. He picked up a win yesterday, finally on Liv. Nice.
16:40
Liv has been in Europe for the past, now, like, month, so all those guys are kind of acclimated- No travel... over there and everything. So I really like Rahm head- Rahm heading into the Olympics.
16:50
I did bet him 12 to one, and I knew that number was gonna be moving after he won yesterday. Yeah. So I thought it was important to get in front of that.
16:57
I wouldn't, I, I mean, speaking of that, though, I would not bet him shorter than 10 to one right now. Like, I, that is, I think you still gotta get double digits on Jon Rahm.
17:04
The top of the board with Scheffler, Schauffele, uh, you know, Rory, Collin, like, there are some really, really talented guys at the top of the board, and I probably wouldn't go shorter than 10 to one on Rahm, 'cause keep in mind, I b- we were betting him at 20 to one in the British Open.
17:18
So, um, 12 to one, even that felt a little chalky to me. But I will, uh, I bet those two early, and then we'll be a- I'm sure we'll be adding to the card, uh, later this week. But, you know, it is the Olympics.
17:28
There's only so many bets you can make. Yeah, the only bet that I made was I put Coco Gauff five to one in a, in a futures parlay. Look at you and Ben Wilson, man.
17:37
You gotta fill, fill in on this show, and just the anti-Egas, uh, just hate, the slander that has to come. Are you an Iga fan? Well, I know you guys talk about tennis a lot here, obviously, 'cause of Gil.
17:48
I don't really care- But is he an Iga- But Gil, Gil, Gil bets her all the time, yeah. He likes Iga? And he's got Iga bets, yeah. So the reason that I do- I do have a Coco bet with you, though, at the, uh, quarter.
17:56
I bet her to win the quarter. I feel like she's live at five to one. She's looked great. She's only dropped, like, like, three games the first two matches.
18:03
I'm somehow more invested in this, like, tennis for the Olympics than I have been in any Grand Slam. Iga's looked good, too, I mean, but Coco was, like, a 1600 money line favorite today.
18:13
Iga was, like, a 2000 money line favorite today. Yeah.
18:16
Um, these two women are gonna roll probably to, like, the semis before they reach any, uh, resistance, and I, I hope that they're in a crash course to play in the final. That would be a really good final.
18:27
Um, of course, the, the match being played at Roland Garros, clay, that is a big part of the handicap. Um, and a great job by JCon breaking that down, and, uh, and, and, and your golf picks, too.
18:36
I like the Rahm play a lot. The Rahm, uh, number makes sense if you consider the- Yeah... uh, um, the situation he's in. I think the travel matters, the fact that they're in Europe.
18:45
All right, but- Bo- both golf and tennis are interesting, real, real quickly on this, Joe- They are, they are... 'cause it, it's- Very interesting. It's the same sport...
18:49
well, same sport, but you, but I thought- Same players... Jake bro- brings up a good point. The back end of the board, both tennis and golf are gonna be this way. It's not gonna be nearly as strong as it is.
18:59
And I'm not saying that 70 to ones go out and win all the time on the PGA Tour. Johnny Vegas did, uh, just do that yesterday. Um, but you have, they are still all professional PGA Tour level golfers, right?
19:10
That we're talking- Yeah... about in a PGA Tour event. When you have countries that can only send two or three golfers in these co- I mean, th- there is not nearly as much- Like Thailand...
19:20
talent f- yeah, further down the board, and that's gonna apply to both tennis and golf. So something just to keep in mind as you're betting, uh, these things. Do you fi- uh, this is your first time betting the Olympics?
19:29
Did you bet it in 2020? Do you remember? Oh, I bet, yeah. I, I, I- Do you remember betting in '12? I don't remember betting in 2020. Yeah, I bet, uh, no, I b- I had a Xander ticket. You, oh, that's right. You said that.
19:37
That's right, that's right, that's right. I don't think I bet it in 2016, though. That's a, that's a good question. I don't think gambling... Well, it was not legal in the States unless you were in Nevada then.
19:45
[laughs] I was gambling in 2016. [laughs] Yeah. I was gonna say, I was gambling in 2016, too, just not legally, wink, wink.
19:51
Um, all right, uh, the breaking news that we heard in baseball, um, I will get to that right now 'cause Jeff Passan just tweeted, uh, that the Royals have acquired a new pitcher, Michael Lorenzen from the Texas Rangers.
20:02
That's important for two things, two reasons. Again, we talked about this a little bit earlier, um, with, with Mark, just seeing the hand. Like, we get to see the whole cards.
20:13
Usually, when you're playing blackjack, you only get to see one whole card. The other one's face down. You don't know what the dealer's holding. Now we get to, they have to flip because the Royals,
20:23
we thought they were in the race. We expected them to be buyers. The Rangers, we didn't know. We didn't know what the Rangers were gonna do, right? They made all these great moves.
20:31
Scherzer and all these great players won the World Series. Didn't have a great start to the year. But they were still kind of hanging around, as Teddy Ka- KGB would say. Yeah. But it hasn't been a good season for Texas.
20:43
Well, now we know. Now we know they're sellers. Frankly, I think this does two things for the Rangers: A, they- they're probably gonna sell more 'cause they have good players, um, that probably are available.
20:54
I don't know who, but, uh, I'm assuming this won't be the last move Texas makes, um, as they kind of retool after their World Series season. But on the other side with the Royals,
21:04
how legit of a contender do we think they are? Because they're telling us right now that they think they're a contender. Yep. I, I don't, I didn't love what I saw from Reagan's yesterday.
21:14
I think their rotation still leaves something to be desired. That's why they go out and get a Michael Lorenzen. But offensively speaking, this has been one of the most consistent, best offenses in baseball all year.
21:23
Bobby Witt's an MVP candidate. Salvador Perez has played, like, a million games, and he's one of the better...
21:29
I don't think he pl- he doesn't catch anymore, I don't think, but he's one of the, he used to be one of the better defensive catchers in the game. Bobby Witt Jr. is still batting over.500 this month.
21:36
Bobby Witt's, like, has unbelievable season. Is that a thing that happens in Major League Baseball? Like, I just caught his stats the other day. No, he can do it. Over.500 in a month? That's incredible.
21:43
Yeah, so I, I'm keeping an eye on the Royals. I, I don't know what their prices are. If you want to pull up the baseball futures market now. I, I wouldn't be in, invested in them, um,
21:54
to win it, but if they're not plus money, if they're not, like, -150 or higher to make the playoffs, I would consider a playoff bet.
22:02
Because the thing you have to consider when you're looking at this playoff market, and the playoff market's gonna move a lot over the next couple days. 45 to one to win the World Series. Yeah, I wouldn't make that bet.
22:10
22 to one to win the AL. What are they to make the playoffs? -150? I would guess -150. And plus 120 to make the playoffs. I th- that's the bet that I would make because, again,
22:21
they're obviously telling you that they're invested. They're telling you that they're buying, which should give you a little bit more comfort to buy.
22:30
If the team is buying, you should feel comfortable about buying 'cause you think the price is gonna move in your direction. All right, we will switch gears. NFL, we have a lot to get to in the NFL.
22:40
We've only got two segments left to do it. Uh, stay with us here on VSiN. A Numbers Game continues after this.
22:45
[upbeat music] A Numbers Game on VSiN, the sports betting network.
23:03
All right, we're back. Jared Smith in for Gil all week. Kelly's here, too.
23:06
Let, let's just go right into it, Kelly, 'cause I, I think, um, the, the player props markets in the NFL, as we have about 30 minutes left in the show, I want to try to hit on as much of the NFL as we can, uh, all week long.
23:16
'Cause we have a-- [laughs] Guys, the pre-season starts this week. You want to say the Hall of Fame game doesn't count, sure, whatever, I don't care. There's pre-season football on this week.
23:24
We, um, really do y- y- if, if you're one of those people that's a procrastinator, the buzzer's about to sound. You better come up with some opinions on these teams really quick.
23:36
Um, even if you're not a ratings guy, like, I'm not a ratings guy.
23:39
I know enough people and have enough good resources of people who do ratings better than me that I don't feel the need to do my own ratings because I'm just doing work that's not as quality as other people's, and I have access to it.
23:50
Yep. But you just need- You have the roster To know that. Like, you just have to have that plan. You d- you know, it's like the emergency plan on the side of the building. Just have the plan.
23:59
You know where you're going for your ratings, you know where you're going for your rankings, you know where you're going for this, you know where you're going for that. Have the plan. Know what your plan is.
24:06
For me, it's a slow, gradual build as we get to this point. And we were talking about this, uh, a, a little while ago during one of the breaks, Kelly.
24:15
I am one of those people that does not go team by team and do an hour, two hours' worth on every team, listen to all these podcasts. I, I let the shows that I am on kind of dictate when I do my work.
24:27
Usually right around draft time is when the NFL process starts and you formulate these baseline opinions.
24:34
And I have notes and I have things on each team, but I don't do, like, one of those deep dives on every individual team to try to find the most value. I let the shows that I do kind of dictate the work that I do.
24:44
But when I get to this point, if I feel like I am malnourished in a certain area, now this is the week-to-week process where I will really start to cram. Are you similar with your process?
24:56
Where are you with your process? And, and, and when you get to the futures market, like, what's the first market, what's the first kind of thing you do off your checklist? Yeah, I'm, I'm with you with the...
25:04
I, I'm, I don't do necessarily my own power ratings like you're talking about. I, I do d- I do a deep dive into each team. I definitely, like, I have full notes on each team and everything like that. Okay.
25:15
So that is something that I do. I, and then it's try to, i- I think it's d- deep dive on each team, and then I try to cobble together kind of division notes, right? And then you're kind of going, going from there.
25:25
But, you know, from betting, betting-wise, like, there are, you know, like Gil and I both bet the Bengals to win the AFC North when that first opened up.
25:31
We had thought that, we thought that this was gonna be, that number was gonna be a little long. We thought it was gonna get shorter. So we bet that when it first opened up.
25:38
Probably the next couple bets I made was at [laughs] were after the draft, right?
25:42
And then the, then the bulk are right d- right during this time in the past, past month or so, as you're kind of doing your own research on the teams and divisions and everything. And then you start making bets.
25:51
And then I think as we start, as you're kind of hinting at, as we kind of start talking through markets- Yep... I, it's, it's great to have these conversations with other people that you respect betting-wise, right?
26:00
Because you end up, you end up coming around on a market, or maybe you didn't think about betting something, uh, you know, a certain way.
26:06
Or you just start comparing prices and see stuff that are off, and it triggers a bet, which did for me in one of these markets. And let's get into one of these markets. Um, the mo- So what Kelly does is very, very sound.
26:20
It's, and I have ratings on units. So I enter the season, I don't do point spread ratings. Hmm. I have people that are way better than, way smarter at that than me. I don't, I feel like it's a waste of time for me to do.
26:30
I could do it, but it's a waste of time, because there's people been doing it for years that I'm friends with, and I'm just gonna use their ratings. This is, it's [laughs] I'll be very transparent about it.
26:37
It's a waste of time for me. But what I do do heading into the season is I rank each unit. I rank each positional unit, and then I conglomerate that into a team rankings unit.
26:48
I do double exposure for the quarterback, obviously. Um, but I have, like, a team power ratings heading into the season.
26:56
And then as the season goes along, obviously the power ratings will adjust on the point spread-wise, and that's where I kind of go along.
27:00
But there's another adjustment that you have to make before we get into this market, and it's the rule changes. The rule changes matter, uh, certain years more than most. This is a year that it's going to matter a lot.
27:13
And we just got a note from our pal Steve Fezick. Thank you for, thank you for watching, Steve. I appreciate the feedback, pal. Um, this is a very good point. Kickoff rule changing this year.
27:23
Arguably the most impactful rule change we've seen since the PI changes.
27:28
You know, since the defensive, uh, pass interference penalty changes, like all the personal fouls and all the other stuff that they really threw into the game over the last few years.
27:37
But this is gonna impact the game in a different way. It's gonna impact the game with field position, because you're gonna have a lot more kickoff returns this year than you've had in prior years.
27:47
You're gonna have a lot more success. It's a very unique play, and if it's run right, field position's gonna be better, which means scoring will go up. But what it'll also mean is yardage will go down.
27:56
Because if there's [laughs] not as many yards to gain- Yep...
27:59
on average, because you're starting at the 30, 35 instead of the 20, 25, if your average starting field position is 5, 10 yards closer to your goal line, well, then there's less yards to gain. Mm-hmm.
28:11
So scoring up, but yards down. What does that mean? Player prop markets and most rushing yard markets might be impacted this year. What do you think about that? I can't, I can't wait to...
28:23
I, I mean, well, yes, I, e- everything you just said is sound, makes sense, is right.
28:27
I, but I can't wait to see what w- w- the, the different teams- The, the tricks and the- The different teams and their different approaches...
28:33
strategies Because I'm wondering how many cowards out there in the NFL- Cowards [laughs] Cowards, I'll call, say it right now- Yeah, yeah...
28:40
are not e- are not even tinkering around with this at all, Jared, and they're just like, "We're gonna boom it out of the back of the end zone every time," and, like, who cares?
28:45
We'll give it up and, we'll give it up and let them start at the 30, and we're- Yeah, 'cause the touchback's at the 30 this year. Yeah. But you think, so what you're saying is you think kickoffs can be way more than 30.
28:55
Uh, yeah, yeah. You think, you think the average position for kickoff will be 35, 40 yard mark. I mean, I think that you wa- you, we... I mean, uh, uh, they're trying to design this- Or teams will just concede the 30.
29:03
They're tr- right. They're trying to design this rule, right, so that there are more returns, but you're also not getting those huge collisions of guys running down the field. Yeah.
29:11
So I, I mean, I think if you are a smart special teams coach a- and a team that wants to employ this, you're probably trying to get the ball inside the five-yard line or maybe just inside the r- uh, uh, end zone and make that kick returner make that decision of whether they wanna come out or not.
29:29
But I, I d- I, I think there's gonna, I think there's gonna be too many coaches that will just be fine with booting it out the back of the end zone and ta- ta- taking the worst field position.
29:38
But you're right, when we talk about some of these markets, even that is still impacted. Five yards is still five yards. Five yards is five yards. That's the, that's the s- the 100%, I can't argue with that.
29:49
That's 100% factual. Um, no, this is, this is a really good talking point, because we don't know. We really don't know which coach is gonna have which strategy. It's- Things are changing in the NFL. Yep.
30:04
Th- this is the traditional... And I'm not saying three is not a key number anymore. It is a key number, but it's not as key of a number as it was 10 years ago. It's just not, because teams are going for two more. Yeah.
30:16
They're not- they- they're missing a lot of extra points. Like, uh, the- the- the kicking game is changing. Now the kickoff game is changing.
30:24
And eventually, you move the variables enough, one season might not show it, but five seasons will. We're went now, what, three or four years into this kickoff extra point thing being changed?
30:37
Or not the kickoff, but the extra point, uh, being moved back- Yeah... and the two-point conversion becoming more prevalent. I- it might be three, it might be four. I forget the exact number of seasons.
30:43
Why do I feel like that's longer than me and you were thinking right now? [laughs] Maybe it's only been two seasons. I don't know. It's been a couple. It's definitely been at least two years. No, no, no, no.
30:50
I was like, I went like, I'm thinking about- It feels like 100 years ago... closer to five. Yeah. I m- whatever. It- it's been a couple years.
30:54
Now we have a little bit more data to kinda say, well, three and seven are becoming slightly less key than they were back in the '80s and '90s.
31:04
And it- it's just the, the entire game is changing, and now we're gonna have this new monkey wrench thrown into the mix. So- Yeah, 2015. [laughs] Seven years. Seven. No, nine, nine years. Nine, yeah.
31:15
[laughs] Wow, feels like yesterday they- It really does... moved the extra point back. All right, odds to have the most rushing yards this season. The wrong guy.
31:23
I- I'm not saying the wrong guy's favored here, but he got, like, one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL.
31:27
The, the 49ers, I've got the Niners graded as the 16th offensive line in football, and you wanna bet a guy on their team to have the most, uh, rush yards? Now, I know he's got the most volume- Yeah...
31:36
Christian McCaffrey, of course, being the favorite in this market by a large margin. This is a big gap for a favorite in a market pre-flop, and this is a counting yards market, right? Mm-hmm.
31:46
This isn't a subjective market, um, which I would understand if a guy like McCaffrey would have such a big lead over everyone else because he's, you know, he scored a touchdown how many straight games last year?
31:55
But Christian McCaffrey right now plus 275 in this market. Jonathan Taylor, Saquon Barkley, by the way.
32:00
Saquon Bark- we gotta change the, uh, team, uh, uh, icon next to Saquon Barkley there at plus 650, but it's okay because we all have reminisce on him.
32:08
I'll be honest, I think, I think Breece Hall's live here at eight to one. I don't think- That, that is the first name I stopped at as well. Yeah, he's live.
32:16
I mean, well, let's just talk it out from a perspective of, of, before you begin any of the numbers, just from a perspective of, of, of need. Um, the Jets need a running game to take the pressure.
32:26
[laughs] Like, they, they, they need, and they beefed up the O line in the off-season. I give 'em a lot of credit for that.
32:32
Um- A- and I do feel like some of the things we're hearing, i- i- are true, and it's the best way, I think it's the best way for the Jets to approach this if they do, where you're looking at Aaron Rodgers hopefully, like, 25 attempts a game is kinda where he's maxing out at.
32:46
Yep. And you're, and you are balancing this out with an effective run game. I, I think Breece Hall could have a big year.
32:51
I ha- I haven't made any bets, but, like, I, I think Offensive Player of the Year, I think most rushing yards, I think all of these are interesting categories for him this year. I've heard the burst is back.
33:00
I've got the Jets graded as a top 10 O line and a top 10 skill position unit. I mean, again, they're deep. Yeah. They're, they're, they're deep. They drafted the kid from Wisconsin.
33:08
They had a deep running back room to begin with. Abacanda, the fifth kid, looked good last year in limited time with a terrible O line and a terrible quarterback situation. He looked good.
33:17
And of course, the Jets have had a lot of success drafting running backs. Breece Hall is a great example, a second-round pick. Um, he's an interesting one.
33:25
I, I, the, the other names on that list don't interest me a whole lot, um, just because of volume a- and injury concerns. Saquon does a little bit, but this is a tough market to bet into. We'll continue to talk NFL.
33:36
Again, the NFL talk will ramp up considerably this week. The preseason is here, folks. We'll wrap up the Numbers game on the other side.
33:42
[upbeat music] A Numbers Game on VSiN, the sports betting network.
34:05
All right, let's wrap things up here on a Monday. I'll be with you all week. Um, I, so I was thinking about, I was thinking about baseball bets for today.
34:14
There's one bet, and I told you I was gonna talk about this, um, i- earlier in the show. I'll give it to you now. So the Mets-Twins game. So the Mets, this is, this stat might surprise you. Maybe it won't surprise you.
34:27
The Mets in July have played 24 games. 21 of them have gone nerfy. Really? 21 and three. I thought you were gonna, I thought you were gonna bring up how many games they've won out of those 24.
34:38
No, they've been- How many have they won? 18? Probably a 500 team. They're probably like- Oh, really? Yeah, they haven't had a great July, if I can recall. Am I, am I thinking of June being their hot month?
34:46
[laughs] June was their hot month. Okay. [laughs] June was the month that they almost won the- Time flies by. Time does fly by. I wanna say they're, like, a 500 team in July. I could be wrong about that.
34:56
Um, I can tell you in their last 10 games they're six and four, which is about 500. Um, but they played 24 games in the month of July. They've had 21 nerfies. Here's the rub. Here's the catch.
35:09
They're facing a team today, the Minnesota Twins, that have been one of the hottest yerfy teams in baseball lately, and they've also been a very hot team against lefties, and they face a lefty today.
35:23
So the Twins in the month of July have been above 500 to the yerfy, which is rare.
35:28
Again, the yerfy's been, or the nerfy's been the more, uh, uh, prevalent side this year, about 54 and a half percent on the full season, which is a lot.
35:36
Again, this is usually about a coin flip kinda, kinda proposition here. That's 14 and nine, uh, this year. Plus they've been pretty good. They're pretty good.
35:43
Or- Orioles and Mariners lead your most wins race with 17 right now. Orioles have been really good in July.
35:49
I, I think the Orioles, and we talked about this with Mark, uh, Borchardt a little bit earlier in the show, I, I think the Orioles are the best team in the American League.
35:56
I do, especially if they go out and get another starter. I think their lineup's better top to bottom. Now, the Yankees did make an addition. I'll give the Yankees credit.
36:04
I think Jazz Chisholm makes them better I think he adds versatility. He can play infield. I heard they might try to try him out at third base- Yeah... which would be very interesting. Yeah, yeah.
36:12
He was taking grounders there the other day, right? Grounders there. Took grounders at third. Obviously, he can play second. He played second with the, with the Marlins.
36:18
He played center field last night, and he, he looks a little bit... He looks a little uncomfortable, I think, in center field sometimes.
36:24
Um- As two South Florida guys, what was your favorite, uh, Jazz Chisholm, uh, Marlins memory? Uh, wh- which one will you be framing? [laughs] Classic Marlins. Probably- I love to hate on them whenever I can...
36:34
probably one of the times he led off a game with a home run and ruined my nerfy. That's probably... Yeah. [laughs] That happened a few times. Um,
36:43
I, I think the Orioles, I think the Orioles are the best team in the American League. I do. I honestly do. I, I think they're gonna be in the world. I, I...
36:49
If I had to pick a World Series right now, it'd be Phillies and Orioles. But, um, the Mets today face the Twins, and I love the Twins matchup. Simeon Woods Richardson's been unbelievable. 16 and 1 of the nerfy this year.
37:03
Um, fantastic numbers. José Quintana's been very average. 13 and 7. I'd say that's below average. His, all of his underlying numbers have been below average, and the Twins just crush lefties. Royce Lewis crushes lefties.
37:16
He went yard off, uh, Scoobell in the first inning the other night, ruined a nerfy for me. I want to get there with the Mets nerfy today. I think I'm going to, and here's why. This might sound weird.
37:27
You might grill me for it. It's fine. I've been grilled for worse. When these numbers take a lot of... Usually these nerfies take a lot of money overnight.
37:37
Um, this one didn't take as much money as the other ones normally do. But when the Mets nerfy, and I use all...
37:45
Uh, so I track, uh, every nerfy price, every closing price at Pinnacle, which is an offshore book that, um, to me, is the most efficient of all the books offshore. I, I think it's a book that every...
37:55
Even though y- I don't use it to bet, at least I, my friends in Canada do, um, it's a book I think you should look at the odds every night because I think it's, it's
38:06
pretty helpful to see how the offshore markets move and the difference, the delta between the offshore numbers and, and the books that we, we bet onshore. I just think it's a helpful, useful exercise every night.
38:17
Um, but when the nerfy at Pinnacle is priced at minus 120 or higher, the Mets this season, 41 and 19 of the nerfy. So what does that tell you?
38:30
It tells me that when the Mets are supposed to go nerfy, they go nerfy, and that's been a helpful gauge for me to bet these numbers.
38:40
Um, right now the Mets nerfy offshore's about minus 125, so it's, it's in that range where I think it's bettable tonight. I think you could probably find a minus 120 here in town. I think that's my one nerfy bet tonight.
38:52
There's a couple others that are intriguing. The, uh, Cleveland-Detroit one steamed up a lot. You got Bibee and Flaherty. They just played each other last week, and it went yerfy.
39:00
Detroit's actually been a quite good yerfy team on the season. Um, but that's the only one that really stood out to me today. And I... Texas-St. Louis is up there, too. I don't know if I trust the Vivaldi.
39:13
Polote's been actually really good for St. Louis this year. So I'd say that's one that I'm considering, too. Um, but Minnesota and New York, i-i...
39:21
The Mets nerfy's, not only in the month of July, but also when the price is 120 or higher offshore, we're seeing, like, a 65, 70% nerfy rate, um, when, when, when that happens.
39:33
So I've got this one today priced at around minus 130, so I would definitely lay minus 120 for it. I just... I
39:40
pray that José Quintana, uh, can get through the top of the first unscathed against a Twins lineup that's been really hitting lefties strong this year. Anything else for you on the board today that intrigues you?
39:51
I'll throw out a couple. Uh, nothing specifically for today, but I just shopped around here in Vegas, and I don't see anybody that has this market up, so I'll bring it up for everybody- Okay... else out there.
39:59
Um, going back to the Olympics basketball, uh, the tournament MVP price. LeBron James is plus 120. He's the short shot, uh, by far the short shot.
40:10
I don't know what I've seen, though, in the exhibition games and in game one to make me think that LeBron is not gonna be the clear-cut choice on Team USA, who is now about a minus 600 favorite to win the gold.
40:23
I think that's a good bet. I agree. I think it's a good... I don't think there's any reason why that's, why his role within this team is going to change at all.
40:29
Um, he is classic LeBron offensively, doing everything, um, getting a l- you know, kind of close to a triple-double y- uh, yesterday. So I like that price.
40:38
I can't find anybody in town in Vegas that has it, so I, I'll throw that out there real quick. And one we didn't get to last segment. I did make a bet in the season-long most interceptions, uh, prop. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah.
40:49
We didn't get to that last segment. Yeah, let's put it up right now. We can talk about it here for the last few minutes. Um, this one, one... This is one of my favorite markets to bet every single year.
40:56
I, uh, I always think few- fewest wins, most interceptions, some of these with the- The worst teams. Sometimes it's easier to pick the bad teams than the good ones. That's right. That's right.
41:04
So we've got these up, and this was the ultimate...
41:06
A- a- and tip of the cap to Dustin, uh, Sweetulson because there was a name that jumped out here o- uh, to me, and then it was, I realized there was a book in town that was hanging over double the price that, uh, we were seeing at Drafty.
41:17
So you got Josh Allen, Jayden Daniels eight to one, the short shots in this market. Then Caleb Williams, uh, Will Levis 10 to 1, Derek Carr and Bo Nix, Baker Mayfield, Trevor Lawrence, all 12 to 1.
41:27
Everybody else, 20 to 1 or longer. I think there's a lot of good candidates. We know Josh Allen at, is very turnover prone.
41:34
I think every, like, every year with this market, Jared, I always like to look at, okay, what rookie quarterbacks do we expect to struggle but have been drafted high enough that they're not gonna get benched at any point, right?
41:47
Caleb. I, I think it makes Caleb Williams live. He is not who I bet.
41:51
I think it makes him live Who's the, what's the offense we've been hearing about this off-season that's gonna air it out way more and put their second-year quarterback in a position to throw the ball all over the place with his strong arm?
42:05
That is the Tennessee Titans. And old Billy Leviss, my old friend Billy Leviss. Billy Leviss. [laughs] 10 to one at DraftKings. 20- Good... 23 to one here at Circa to lead- Wow... to lead the league in interceptions.
42:17
That was a bet for me yesterday, uh, but- And they just got rid of Derrick Henry, so- E-...
42:22
not as much of a volume rushing team And the wide receivers that they've added, I think you are going to see the Tennessee Titans airing it out a- And their offensive line stinks Yes.
42:29
I think we're gonna see them airing it out a ton this year. I like that. And I like Levis.
42:33
I don't really know where, like, if he's gonna end up being a quality NFL quarterback or not, but oh boy, he, the test is gonna be put to him this season, and I think there could be a lot of interceptions coming to Will Levis' way.
42:44
He did enough last year to be given a long leash. Yes. And that is, you're right. He- He's got a cannon, too. He's got a cannon...
42:50
handicapping the leash, frankly, because you might think these other guys, and that's why- Second-year guy, you gotta figure out what you have, Jared. You're not benching him. Yeah.
42:59
That's why I wouldn't bet Bo Nix, because if he throws a bunch of picks, you've got Zach Wilson and Jarrett Stidham back there.
43:04
In fact, Jarrett Stidham, Dustin made a good case why you should bet Jarrett Stidham to take the first snap. Yeah. Yeah, he did that yesterday as well. Um- [laughs] Recycling old takes, Dustin. Geez [laughs] The, uh...
43:14
No, and I think there are guys. Like, I wouldn't bet Jayden Daniels, right? Because of injury risk a little bit. I do th- I mean, he's a slight fr- He's gonna run it... slightly framed guy. He's gonna run the ball.
43:23
He's gonna run. Like, when he panics, he'll run it, whereas Levis will throw it. Yeah. And because I think he is a little bit, because of that slighter frame, a guy you don't wanna worry about getting hurt.
43:32
If for whatever reason, uh, you know, the, uh, it, the season falls apart for Washington, I could see him ending up on the bench at the end of the year just to protect him- Yeah... from getting hurt, right?
43:41
So some of the... But, like, Caleb Williams, if you wanna tell me you're betting Caleb Williams, I don't think that's a bad bet here, either.
43:46
I mean, it's a team that everybody's expecting to be at least around 500 in that playoff hunt.
43:51
So even from that perspective, it's not like the season's gonna be done, uh, at any point, you know, at least oddsmakers think. So I, I don't think they're gonna be all that great.
43:58
But Caleb, they're gonna let Caleb Williams get all the reps that he can this year, uh, you know, whe- no matter how the season's going. So at least by season two, he's really ready to go. Yeah.
44:08
There's, there's a lot of intriguing NFL futures markets. I will do my best this week to gather up, round up some of the ones that I really wanna talk about.
44:19
Because this is, guys, again, once we start getting weekly updates, camp, pre-season, you're in the grind. You're in, like, it's the X-Wing going into the, into the gauntlet, getting ready to kill the Death Star.
44:32
Like, like we're, we're, we're here. The season's right in front of us. Great stuff all around. Appreciate it. All of our guests, Kelly, everyone in the back. I'll be back tomorrow on a Numbers Game here on VSiN.
44:43
[upbeat rock music]
A Numbers Game
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