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Jun 12, 2025
A Numbers Game | June 12, 2025 | Hour 2
A Numbers Game | June 12, 2025 | Hour 2
00:00
44:47
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Transcript
0:02
The numbers told the story, they always do. He's one of those idiots who believe in analytics. This is a Numbers Game with Gil Alexander on VSiN.
0:10
Hour number two of a Numbers Game at VSiN, the sports betting network, VSiN.com, Game Plus, iHeartRadio, YouTube TV, and of course, SiriusXM channel 158. It's Gil Alexander.
0:19
Kelly is behind the glass, and that is because we started early today with the Crack Man, Bill Krackomberger, Unscripted with Bill, because we will talk to, uh, JVT and Stormy from Omaha on the College World Series a little later on.
0:31
So Bill was kind enough to come in here a little earlier. We get tweets at Beating The Book. Uh, always appreciate y'all.
0:37
Ice Cold Gambler says, "I thought Tupac had the hit I Get Around, but no, it was Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys. I learn something every Thursday- Wow... when, uh, Crack is on."
0:44
Yeah, well, they both had, uh, songs with that title, uh, and hits with th- with that title. Bama Sluggers, "Crack always taking the high road while telling us what's on his mind. #respect."
0:53
Oh, he's not gonna take the high road for a l- for long. [laughs] Oh, no. Get ready to go. Stay tuned. Stay tuned. Stay tuned. Uh, Cancer Free from Stage Four, uh, says- Oh, man...
1:01
"When in college I did yellow jacket security for hundreds of concerts in SoCal in the late '80s. By far the most enjoyable show I ever did was The Beach Boys." Wow.
1:10
"Nothing but fun with attendees having a good time dancing to great music. RIP Brian Wilson," he says. Awesome. Um, and then The Numbers Guys, "Bill is so right.
1:19
$5 or $10 is the perfect play for Sunday football 14 parlay when I was in junior high. There's nothing better than when Beansie would bring in a stack of them white betting sheets."
1:28
Yeah, it was the parlay cards probably- Yeah, parlay cards... that we had. Gil had them. Um, I, can I just say this before we move on?
1:34
Uh, Cancer Free from Stage Four just reminded me of this, 'cause he, 'cause that's the title in his, in his, uh... He beat cancer in 2019- Yeah... uh, who, who's tweeting us, and thank you.
1:43
Th- the reminder is we were just talking about, uh, Brian Wilson of the B- of the, uh, Beach Boys, and Sly, uh, Sly Stewart from S- Sly and the Family Stone, Sylvester Stewart, um, who was Sly Stone.
1:54
Um, this has nothing to do with that, but it is in music, and it is in my little world and my age group. Um, also, uh, a tragic passing away of Ananda Lewis at the age of 52.
2:05
I don't know if this means anything to anybody, but it does to me. Uh, when I was growing up and we were just sort of making our way in the music industry, uh, you know, she ended up on BET.
2:15
She did a show called Teen Summit. She ended up as an MTV VJ. She was on MTV News. Uh, she was everybody's crush. Uh, she lived her life independent of thought. Uh, she, she was uninfluenced by anybody else.
2:28
I always admired her for that. Um, and then sadly, she passed away because she did have stage four breast cancer. Oh. But she was one of these girls who she decided that
2:40
she wanted to handle her stage three cancer in her own way. She did not believe in treating it with Western medicine.
2:48
She thought that she could do something ho- more homeopathic, and that did not work out for her, and she ends up passing away at the age of 52.
2:57
And for, so those of us who knew her a little bit and were influenced by her, that was a big loss for us yesterday. Oh, it's a shame. Didn't hear that. Yeah. I'm, I'm so gutted by it.
3:04
I, and I have n- I'm trying to come to terms with why, and I think it's just 'cause we're of the same generation and, and did the same sort of things. You know, um, Gil,
3:13
MTV, when it first came out, I was, like, 10 years old, and I remember that was the bible to me, watching those news people, like you said before, you mentioned Kurt Loder- Yeah... and the different guys.
3:24
Um, the v- one guy had curly hair. Goodman, Mark Goodman, maybe. Mark Goodman was one of the original VJs. Yeah. Like, all those, a- and, and there was a couple of the girls at night.
3:30
They were really sexy girls, and they were, they were fun. I remember that. That's why, you know, when Michael Jackson's Thriller, it was, that was like a movie- Yeah... on, on, uh, MTV.
3:41
That was, like, the biggest thing. They would announce when they were gonna play it, what hour they were gonna play it, and replay it, and, um, that was a big thing to us.
3:49
Now I don't even know what any of the stations are. Yeah. Like, MTV, is that they, do they even show videos anymore? I, I, I don't even know. I don't think they do. Yeah. I, I wouldn't know.
3:56
Yeah, I don't even know, like- But, but yeah... there, there was another, VH1, I think it was. VH1. Was that, was that another network, right? It was, it was the same company- Same company, just-... but a little older...
4:03
a little older. It was a little older demo, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
4:05
And you mentioned during the break about, Bill, these people passing, um, wh- which p- people that are, like, 50 or 60, what groups do we have that are, uh, you know, people that are, that, that we're saying this about now- Musical artists, yeah...
4:18
musical artists- Yeah... like, that are in, getting into their primes now, or past their, even, not, not past their prime, but, and, um- Well, just with the, with the, with the Brian Wilsons and the- Right...
4:28
and the Sly Stones of the world passing away, you think, "Oh my God- Right... what's next?" You know. What's next? That kind of thing. Yeah. No, it is, and I was, and we mentioned The Rolling Stones. Yeah.
4:35
I seen Tom Jones a couple weeks ago. Um, yeah, there's been, uh, AC/DC.
4:40
I seen Brian W- Brian Johnson just come out on stage and just pretty much stood still, yet Angus Young was flying around the place with the little school boy outfit. So it just depends, you know- Yeah...
4:51
on individuals, though. Um, all right, let's get into some, um- Speaking of music... [laughs] speaking of music. [laughs] Oh, no. So on the, uh, M2M Pro- podcast, which I watch religiously- Which podcast? M2M.
5:01
It's called Miles to Memories. Okay. These two kids, they're, they're, they're good, though. They go over a lot of different subjects, one of which was
5:08
the one kid worked at Caesars, and how J.Lo and her mom got somebody fired there. Jennifer Lopez. Jennifer Lopez, yeah. And it's not the first time. Th- this girl, I mean, how many, how many...
5:20
Uh, i- it's just the things that she is just so into. She's from the Bronx. She was born there. She, you'd think she would know where she comes from. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? But that's not the way she is.
5:30
She's just- We've known the tipping situations with her ex-husbands and, you know, she, she was married to, I don't know, was she married to Diddy?
5:36
Was she married to, uh, whoever she w- these people that she was married to and stuff, n- nobody could take her. They go- they gotta get rid of her. I mean, uh, you know.
5:43
How, what are the details of her getting someone fired at Caesars, though? Uh, they wanted a different room.
5:47
She, the mother wanted a room upgrade, and they demanded a room upgrade, and the employee did the best they could, but they couldn't do it, and they fired the employee. Yeah. They fired the employee? They fired him.
5:57
Oh, sure. She goes to the top, and they fire. It's J.Lo, you know? Uh, but then again, it's the Caesars corporation. What do you expect? You know?
6:04
That's brutal They, they throw anyone out that wins, so what do you, what do you wanna do with them? Wow. Um, but yeah, she- She claims to still be Jenny From the Block, though, I must tell you. Yeah, give me a break.
6:12
Yeah. You know, speaking of which, now we haven't went over these, Bruno Mars- Yes... the gambling situation. Oh. And let, let's- We, we, we haven't talked about it... we never talk about this.
6:20
No, we haven't talked about it at all. This is, and before you even launch into it- Yeah... would you agree this is the most widely
6:28
known, I, let me not use the word known, the most widely bandied-about rumor that exists in Las Vegas? Oh, it's not a rumor. It's not, and it's not a rumor. Oh, no, it's out there now.
6:36
So, okay, so let's just say widely known. Yeah. It's b- we've known this for years. Yeah. Okay, so explain. Well, how can you not?
6:42
He used to put videos out, all these kids at home watching him on these videos play roulette, and when he had a million dollar spin or a $2 million spin or e- you know, they, he would put these videos out acting, you know, and there was another guy.
6:53
Was it, was it Drake? I don't know. There was another- What's, what's the Bruno, uh, what are you talking about? Tell, let everybody know. Oh, yeah, we're gonna g- get into that.
7:00
No, I'm just saying that they w- they were, th- these guys put videos out of them gambling big- Yeah... and the kids all say, "Ooh, he won a million dollars playing roulette. I gotta do that."
7:07
And then, you know, of course, destruction. So now, uh, he, he owes like- Allegedly. Allegedly... allegedly owes, you know, tens of millions of dollars to a casino, and he's working off his debt.
7:21
So the, so the, this is the, what is part and parcel with this rumor- Yeah... is the reason that Bruno has all these residencies in perpetuity, it feels like- Right... in Las Vegas, right? Right.
7:30
He never, he's always here. Yeah. He's just a f- he's like furniture in Las Vegas at this point. By the way- Right... he's spectacular. Oh, great. Let me, let me put that out. I seen him, too. I thought he was great.
7:39
He's the Michael Jackson of this generation. Oh, he's fantastic. Yeah. But the reason that he keeps doing residencies is not because he wants to necessarily, it's because he has to pay this off- And tr- and trust me-...
7:48
allegedly... I wouldn't be talking about the guy- Yeah... a- even if he, uh, listen, I feel bad for anyone that owes money, and the casinos, you know, enable you to do a lot of these things, too.
7:56
We make our own decisions, but there's a lot of enabler things going on, too.
8:00
But I go after him a little bit because of what he did social media-wise in showing kids how to gamble and how fun it is to win and when, you know. I- so that's why I'm saying it.
8:09
So, um, working off his debt, and, uh, a- allowed to still gamble, I'm told. He's still gambling at p- places, you know.
8:17
And, uh, listen, a- I'm not saying the guy's broke, but I do personally know someone that he owed many hundreds of thousands to, and he paid them. It just took him a while. Hmm.
8:26
So, um, but a- again, all these people that wanna put their, you know, Jay-Z, you know about this bet, right, the million? We, we mentioned it earlier. Oh, you mentioned it earlier? Yeah. Thanks. OKC in five.
8:35
There- There go, there goes a million. Yeah, a million bucks. Yeah. Like, uh, that goes out there and- Fanatics took a million for it, really? Yeah, well, Fanatics is gonna take anyone that, you know- Yeah...
8:42
that, that's, uh- Yeah... uh, they, they don't know. And by the way, th- there, there was a great tweet on this because the odds were so bad on, on these type of bets.
8:51
I made a copy of the, of the tweet, and I'm glad I, I just remembered.
8:54
"Jay-Z losing $1 million on Thunder winning Finals in five games perfectly captures why celebrity betting gets so much attention while missing the actual story. The real angle isn't the lost wager.
9:05
It's that +230 odds for Thunder winning in exactly five games was terrible value to begin with." And it just shows you about, uh, a model and games three, um, it, it's just a mathematically nonsensical.
9:17
You could have get more value betting on a straight series at most books, and that's @bets_lia- liam. I don't know why I'm giving credit for the tweet.
9:25
I, um, but anyway, it just shows you, though, that of course they'll take these bets because those type of bets that are a futures bet that are one-way action. Mm-hmm. One way. You can't bet two ways.
9:37
You can't bet yes and no. That one-way action- We were just talking about MLB props just like this yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. The, the, the hold is double digit, uh, it could be 30, 40, 50%, some of the s- certain markets.
9:47
So terrible bets, terrible way to bet things. Yes and no right here behind us. Um, they, they take yes and no on a lot of things. I like that. At Circa, yeah. Yeah, I like the yes and no things, so, um- Wow.
10:00
By the way, did I ever tell you my, uh, my brush, my, not a brush, but, like, my, my closest proximity to Bruno at the Hard Rock back in the day? Oh, no. In the Hard Rock Gil days. Okay.
10:09
Um, you know the, uh, the restroom at the Hard Rock that used to, as if you went by Pink Taco, there was this, the restroom on the right side there? It's, like, right across, right, right across from Pink Taco. Exactly.
10:18
I remember that. Right across, yes. Let's just say- Like, an island sh- thing... [laughs] let's just say the cops came in and they, and they caught Bruno- Wow... I was, I was just leaving [laughs]- Wow...
10:27
and they caught him in a compromising position. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. All right. So, um, ooh, let's leave it at that. That was the, the Hard Rock days.
10:34
[laughs] Now let's talk about a good thing real quick before we go to break. I thought this year's coverage of the Belmont, which is at Saratoga, was fantastic. Chris Felica. Chris Felica. Yes. It was so good.
10:46
I, I, I, I wish I would've recorded it. Terry Bradshaw, Bobby Flay talking about the history of things. Art Rooney's grandson talking about, uh, the history of the track, the history of the town.
10:57
Christopher Clement, the, uh, a trainer that died at 59. John Morrissey, who was a bare-knuckle boxer that started the track 160 years ago. He fought, he fought like this. That's how he fought. Yeah, like that, right?
11:07
That's how he fought, yeah. [laughs] Bill, uh, Bill Mott's two-year-old granddaughter that passed. It was such a great coverage of the history of the track.
11:12
And, you know, I, I used to go every single year with my buddies when I lived back east, and, um, even though I didn't bet horses a lot, the history of that racetrack, the Whitneys, the Barrymores- And the Cracker Barrelers.
11:23
[laughs] And the, and, and of course Secretariat flying around the track. Oh, my God. Yeah. Such a g- and the original casino.
11:28
People don't know, the Canfield Casino Center, uh, i- in, in, uh, Commerce Park, I think it's called, that casino was one of the first casinos ever, uh, 140 years ago.
11:38
Um, Ben Bugsy Siegel and, and Meyer Lansky owned that. Wow. And people don't know that. And there, there's a lot of history in Saratoga. Did you have sovereignty, by the way? No, I didn't, I didn't bet a race.
11:46
You didn't bet. Yeah, no. Uh, more with the Crack Man right here on the Numbers Game at VSiN, the sports betting network. Coming back.
11:51
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12:13
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12:19
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12:26
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12:36
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12:49
Futures wagering just got a serious upgrade. We get tweets at Beating The Book, always appreciate it. Uh, Jamie Leyva, "Thank you for bringing up Ananda, Ananda Lewis. She was a big part of my youth.
13:00
She was a spring break must-watch. RIP." Yes, she was. Uh, Jack Olaquire, "Gil, besides being a lifelong White Sox fan, also a lifelong Beach Boys fan. Saw many of their concerts live over the years.
13:11
For me, the music died yesterday. RIP, Brian Wilson." Justin Gilo, he tells us a crack. He says, uh, "There's a channel on YouTube TV called MTV Classics, and it shows '80s music videos." Oh, wow. So not MTV- Yeah...
13:24
standard, but MTV Classics. Still pretty cool. Yeah. Uh, Buddhist Man spitting some, uh, Eric B. & Rakim here. My man.
13:30
He said, "Side note, second-best horn sample ever, only trailing They Reminisce Over You by Pete Rock and CL Smooth," They Reminisce. Oh. Bank On It Sports, "Question for you in crack in light of the Bruno situation.
13:41
What's the most you ever owed someone and for how long?" [laughs] Oh, man. Um, not long, pay it off. Yeah. Here's the thing- And-... that's the biggest thing in gambling. [clears throat] If you, uh...
13:51
It's, there is no shame in losing, but know your, know your limits. Be able to pay your debts. So many don't. You know, um, fast pay makes lasting friends. What's that? Fast pay makes lasting friends. There you go.
14:06
And, you know, in, in our industry, in our business, you know, when I used to, when I lived back east and playing with all different people and, you know, you would...
14:13
If I would-- I know I'm gonna win overall, so I know I'm gonna have more winning weeks than losing weeks. I would try to pay Monday. Like, with Monday Night Football- Yeah...
14:22
some of the books went out Monday night back, back in the day. Tuesday I wanna pay, 'cause I wanna be paid by... I, I know I'm gonna be paid more, so I wanna be paid on Tuesday.
14:31
So that, you, you, you wanna pay right away. That's, that's the idea. So, but in our business, though, there's floats all the time.
14:37
There's, you know, your floats on your carry, as a carry balance, whatever it may be- Yep... you know? And, uh, you know, it is what it is.
14:43
The Numbers Guys, "Have you guys ever talked about that Ashton Kutcher story about him acting as a front for a large syndicate? These celebs would seem to be the perfect beard." We have talked about that a little bit.
14:52
Now, if you listen to... There's a great book, it's, uh... I listened to the book on tape, actually, by, um, [smacks lips] which is called audiobooks now, Bill. Um, [smacks lips]
15:01
they're called, it's, um, Smart Money by Michael Konik. Oh, great book. It's fantastic. Yeah. Rick Big, Big, uh, Big Daddy Matthews is, is Billy Walters, so we know that now.
15:10
[smacks lips] But, uh, yeah, Ashton Kutcher was, was one of the, one of the guys there. Yeah, no, he, he's absolutely right.
15:16
There was a couple beards that they talked about that were big celebrity guys and, uh, you know, the, some of the big bettors over the years w- uh, Bruce Willis, um, Ashton Kutcher.
15:25
Uh, again, I think I told you the guy in, in Con Air. I always forget his name. Con Air, what was the star of Con Air? Nick Ke- Nicholas Cage? Nick, Nicholas Cage. Yeah. Yeah. So there's been some big, um, so...
15:34
But that, that's a great, great audiobook. Uh, it's, it's a good read, too, but I have problems reading.
15:40
Like, I, I have t- terrible ADD, um, where I used to, used to be, be my favorite subject, my best subject, but now by page 10, it doesn't make sense 'cause I don't remember what the first nine pages were.
15:50
Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, which I used to love reading.
15:53
But, but the audiobook j- uh, Anthony Curtis o- of Las Vegas Advisor just put a lot of his books on audio, [smacks lips] and, uh, it's fantastic books on audio.
16:02
There's, there's an advantage slot book out, uh, by a friend of mine, Michael Kaplan. It just came out a couple weeks ago, and, uh, it's, it's just fantastic that it's on audio.
16:10
So audiobooks are the way to go for me, anyway.
16:13
Um, by the way, one of the great Sloan Sports Analytics Conference gambling panels of all time, this is how great MIT Sloan Sports Conference used to be, uh, Michael Konik, who wrote that book- Right...
16:24
uh, Andrew Garoud- Yeah... who developed the algorithm for the, uh, Midas, the Midas algorithm for Cantor Gaming's in-game stuff, a British derivatives trader, and Dr. Bob. Wow.
16:34
It was just, it was just so amazing back then. Wow. Montreal Max, the Bruno Mars story takes us back to the days of Sinatra blowing large money in the casinos he played.
16:43
And famously, Colonel Parker of, uh, Elvis fame, keeping Elvis playing The International because he was so deep into the casino. And even more recently, Celine Dion's late husband- Yes... was losing big. Yeah.
16:53
But, but I mean, he, he paid his debts and- Yeah... he, he was actually a very good guy. Celine Dion's husband was a, a good person. I know some people that he helped out. Um, good person.
17:03
Colonel Parker, not a good person. Uh, and yes, great information there. It didn't come out till later in life from a lot of the, uh, T- taking care of business gang there.
17:12
They, they, you know, kind of rattled him out a little bit. He wasn't a good guy, and he was, uh, in debt. He, he's right, at The International- Yeah... back then.
17:19
And, um, what was the first one, the first big gambler there on the list? Sinatra. Oh, Frank. Yeah. You know, I ha- I had on, um, Nifty Vickerson on my show. He was, his, his- Nifty Vickerson?
17:29
Yeah, he was his right-hand man- Yeah... for, um, 15 years. He was his- What a great nickname... his valet. He did every, you know, he was just there for him on every show.
17:36
Um, he talked about some of the things that, you know... It, some great stories b- uh, about Sinatra. It didn't come out until after he died, and it didn't really come out now.
17:45
Probably one of, there's probably nobody that raised more money, hundreds of millions of dollars, for charities than Frank Sinatra. Elton John's also a big one, but Frank Sinatra gave away a lot of money.
17:57
Went into his pocket for a lot of things that paid for funerals and different things that no one even knew. Uh, you know, for all the bad, 'cause he had some bad stories, you know, arou- about Frank.
18:07
Short-tempered and- Mm-hmm... didn't go for a lot of the... Matter of fact, Nifty said He had to have Campbell's Soup in the red can.
18:13
That's right, red can of Campbell's Soup, a, a, ch- a vegetable soup, chicken vegetable, before every single show. Really?
18:19
And they were in Michigan somewhere, Kalamazoo, I think he said, and they couldn't get the soup, and he flipped out.
18:25
[laughs] 'Cause yeah, and, and he, next day back in New York or two days later, he's like, "Nifty, I got 24 cases coming. Every single show, make sure this, this soup's at my show." He has to have the...
18:35
You know, there was red Lifesavers, uh, there were certain things that he had to have, you know? Wow. Wow. But I love the stories, but- By, by the way, that's- He was- There's a Food Across...
18:43
of The Food That Built America, a series that's on the History channel Great series, Gil It's so awesome. It's so good.
18:49
And the Campbell's Soup episode was one of the great ones, how it took them forever to figure out- Oh, I didn't see that one. Really? Like, the stuff that we take for granted- Right, right...
18:56
it took them forever to figure out how to put condensed soup in a can. Wow. Yeah, amazing. By the way, I wouldn't recommend it. No. [laughs] Oh, God. I wouldn't either.
19:03
Now, now it comes out how bad these canned things are. I mean, it st- and that, that factory in Camden, New Jersey, one of the garden spots of the world. We might have missed something here on the Jay-Z story.
19:12
Jay-Z, who we were talking about Ben Fox reporting a, a million dollar bet on OKC to win the NBA finals in five, which obviously is a loser.
19:20
James Fessler at Mizzou Soldier, he says, "Another layer to the Jay-Z bet is that he's an original investor in Fanatics. So how much is he getting back, or was it just a marketing ploy?" Oh, wow, I didn't know that.
19:30
Ryan Kleinfelter adds, "I wonder on this Jay-Z finals bet if this is just a marketing stunt and that is why Fanatics took the wager.
19:36
I haven't heard anyone mention this, but Michael Rubin, the owner of Fanatics, has a close relationship with Jay-Z." You know, I got something to say that's gonna be shocking. I wasn't planning to say it.
19:45
It just hit me when you said Fanatics. So I know we're... I, I'm, I'm tough on a lot of sports books for throwing people out and, and limiting people to a, $100 or a dollar.
19:54
I wish I had limited it to 100 at some of them. Um, I don't know a s- single casino sports book that won't throw you out long-term for winning certain type of bets. That's right. I can't name one.
20:07
I can't name one, and I'm talking about the biggest books, Pinnacle, Offshore, the biggest casinos, everyone in this town, everyone nationwide.
20:16
I can't name a casino that will not stop you from winning certain k- type of things. By the way, uh, Joe Public's allowed to bet certain things that I'm talking about, but I'm not. That's what I'm talking about.
20:28
So even the ones that you think are the big boys, every single one, I can't think of a casino. That's a pretty, pretty big statement. Every casino will throw you out for winning in certain situations. Certain situations.
20:40
Not cheating. Could you, could you be more- Not doing anything wrong Could you be more- Just using your brain... more specific?
20:43
And we're just, just- Uh, I'm not allowed to bet, um, baseball parlays, um, Boston Red Sox and under, home team and under. Yeah. Boston plus $1.20 and under seven runs, um, I'm not allowed to bet if they're home.
20:57
It's a stupid little correlation. It's not worth hardly anything except on certain pitchers that we thought were, were better in this situation, closing bullpens and stuff. Yeah.
21:07
And I'm not allowed to bet them I don't think anywhere in this town, including Circa. Well- I'm not allowed to bet them anywhere... remember, I think I told a Wishnev story th- that was similar to this.
21:16
So when he was betting at the West Gate years ago, and again, we've talked about this before, it was available to bet on the app, so one of these things. You can bet it if you want on your app. Right. I can't bet it.
21:26
Oh, no, no, but he... So this, no, back in the day, Wishnev. Oh, okay. He bet something on his app- Right... very similar to what you're talking about. Yeah. He bet something on the app.
21:33
They approached him in the sports book and they said, "D- you don't do that again, or we'll throw you out." He's like, "What are you talking about? What did I do?" Right? It's like, so it's- [laughs]...
21:41
if it's available mechanically to be bet on your app- It's one of my subjects, yeah...
21:45
no one would know not to do it, and so he, I just remember Wishnev being like, "Well, I wouldn't have done it if you had told me not to, but it's there. Like, how would I know?"
21:52
It, it's not our fault that your apps take these things. That's right. So i- if you have a busted algorithm or whatever it may be, it's not our fault that you accept certain parlays and stuff.
22:03
Um, you know, uh, it's just we've conditioned society to think that parlays are normal, and it's fun to bet same game parlays and all these other things.
22:12
So now if we found, I'm not gonna say a flaw, but for lack of a better word, a flaw where I feel I have a little bit of an edge
22:19
of betting something correlated, it's not my fault that your kiosk or your app takes that bet. So it's so stupid to make someone stop betting that too because I'm just gonna have Gil or somebody else bet it.
22:31
I mean, uh, you're, you're not even gonna know about it- [laughs]... until you get hit for a couple thousand rather than just take a small bet from me and learn from me if that's what you're saying, I'm so sharp.
22:39
But no, they just wanna throw people... And this, this goes, this is a blanket statement on the entire industry. Um, it was a fast-moving morning at the US Open. It has been pretty stagnant since.
22:50
We'll update the leaderboard. On the other side, Numbers Game, VSiN, the sports betting network. [upbeat music] A Numbers Game on VSiN, the sports betting network. Wanna bet smarter this football season?
23:06
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23:08
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23:20
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23:21
Get instant access to a daily email with all the best bets from hosts and their guests, real-time betting splits from DraftKings and Circa, 24/7 video access on the VSiN Watch app, plus our 2025-26 NFL betting guide dropping July 1st.
23:33
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23:43
Uh, let's go roll through, 'cause we don't have that many bets today, but, uh, let's roll through what we have courtesy of gbank, the official bank of VSiN.
23:50
Each show, every host, every guest, every sport with all their plays. I'm on the Pacers plus six, game four.
23:55
I was on the Pacers plus the points last night in the contest, and, uh, as an actual bet I won't, uh, I don't have any more contest plays, but I'll be betting the Pacers yet again to give me the points.
24:04
Also have the Tigers most wins in June going, and Leon Draisaitl to win Conn Smythe. But the Oilers, gotta get off the schneid.
24:10
Well, uh, they do have one win, so it's not off the proverbial schneid, but you get what I mean. They're down two to one to the Panthers. Oilers
24:18
Not quite a must-win, but kind of must-win, if you know what I mean, in game four tonight in Florida. Kelly is on the Thunder money line, game four. I suppose we could both win then by that outcome.
24:29
So he's on the Thunder money line, game four. And again, um, if you were thinking about betting the Pacers on the series price,
24:37
probably should just bet the Pacers on the money line in game number four because the chances of them winning the series without winning game four, probably slim, and you get a better price on the game four money line than you do on the series money line price on the Pacers.
24:50
Uh, all of that brought to you by G Bank, the official bank of VSiN. Once again, the G Bank trifecta in full effect. The $500 trifecta from G Bank, First Bet, and VSiN.
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25:26
This one-time promotion is limited to customers opening a new account response to this offer and will not apply to requests to convert existing accounts. Apply today. Terms and conditions apply.
25:36
Uh, we got tweets at Beating The Book. This is from, [smacks lips] uh, let's see, Rich PSM. "Kelly, you're missing the huge ingredient the Thunder forgot to add.
25:43
Even Indiana has a veteran with rings to make key plays under pressure. Robert Horry, Chauncey Billups. That's why they'll, th- that's why they'll lose." This. Okay. Um, I assume he means Pascal Siakam in terms of that.
25:57
Uh, Montreal Max, "I forgot during the first week of the French to compliment Gill and his flawless pronunciation of all tennis players', uh, names weekly. Well done and not easy." And, uh, well, thank you for that.
26:08
I appreciate it. Steve the Proxy, "RIP Ananda Lewis." Yes, a beautiful spirit, so sad to see her gone way too soon.
26:14
Fun fact, she won a beauty pageant as a child with a self-choreographed dance to Ebony and Ivory [chuckles] by Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney. Yeah, like I said, um, what a beautiful soul and spirit.
26:24
A lot of us were really moved by that yesterday. Um, oh yes, and Mike Rouse, I gotta bring this up right now. "Are you planning to discuss the golf betting lawsuit with Crack, the lawsuit you discussed on Monday?"
26:34
Yes, Crack. Okay. Gotta get you chi- uh, I- I need you to chime in on this. So a dude in Iowa- Right... $14.2 million he's suing DraftKings for.
26:43
He, uh, after the third round of the, of the Pebble Pro-Am, Pebble Beach Pro-Am last year- Mm-hmm... 2024, after the third round, he saw the weather forecast and he said, "Oh, they might not play this.
26:56
So I'm gonna put in," this is him talking now. This is me acting like he's talking. Sure. Is he goes ahead and puts in parlays where you could do exact positions on the leaderboards.
27:04
So what he did with the possibility of them scuttling the entire final round, fourth and final round, he ends up putting in parlays on everybody's finishing position, one through 20, I believe it was. Right.
27:15
Anyway, they scuttle the fourth round as it turns out. They call the tournament after three rounds, and he, quote-unquote, "makes" $14.2 million. Now he's suing DraftKings. DraftKings is like, "We're not paying you."
27:29
I said on Monday, I'm like, "Well, at first I was on the sportsbook side, then I kinda see what he's saying. I'm not really sure." You?
27:36
If it's in the rules that they must play 72 holes, then of course DraftKings has, has, has their case and their... It's over. I don't think that was in the rules. Okay. I don't think it said 72.
27:46
Okay, so, uh, so, so if it didn't say they have to complete four rounds of golf, if it didn't say that, um, you know, he, he maybe got a little greedy. He could have not won 14 million. [laughs] I was gonna say.
27:56
I mean, he could have won- Yes... you know, a couple hundred thousand and, and, and- Yeah... they may have just said, "Give him his money so we don't have to get the bad press."
28:02
But instead he went the greedy route, 14 million, and, uh, you know, you know me. I'm on the side of the players 99.9% of the time. So it matters the wording of this.
28:13
Um, I don't see him getting a grocery dollar, you know? You don't see him getting a grocery dollar from it? No, no. He may get his, uh, 300 bucks back.
28:20
Uh, the, the DraftKings, let's see, the DraftKings rule was, let's see, mm, mm-mm, mm, unilaterally voided all five of his bets refunded, citing rules on futures bets which state they are canceled if they are placed after the last shot- Well, that's it...
28:35
of what is later deemed to be the final round of the tournament. How can this even be a case then? How can they even, why even get- Yeah... listen. And you know me, I'm, I'm, [laughs] like I said, 99.9.
28:44
Why even, why is this even a case then?
28:46
If that's the rules and the stated rules, and you took a shot at them without reading the rules, which most people do anyway, I don't even read all the rules on cer- certain things, so, uh, there's so many rules.
28:55
You'd take, you'd be here till, you know, the end of time. So i- it shouldn't even be a case.
29:00
What they are claiming is that there are other r- there's other language that then counters that one, that makes it a little more vague. So it, it, that's where it becomes a bit of a word salad.
29:11
There's, what they're saying is they're applying rules however they feel like it given the circumstance. So in this case, they apply that language. Yeah, yeah. That's their claim.
29:19
No, well, um- You're, you're probably right though. They probably don't see a dollar.
29:22
It, it, trust me, I, I, I, uh, like I said, uh, this, this, in this case, I have to side with a sport- you're betting on an event after it's over.
29:30
You're, you're betting- Oh, he, oh, he clearly- You're betting an event after the event's over... he clearly knew what he was doing and was taking a shot- Yeah... without a doubt.
29:37
I mean, but I'll tell you again I'm telling you, Gil, if he would've won 100 grand- They'd have given it to him... to avoid the bad press, they would've gave him the money. Yeah.
29:44
Now, j- j- just because I know what happens. You got guys like VegasPaulieC put a video out, a tweet. He doesn't know. He doesn't know. He doesn't know what 11 to 10 means.
29:52
Like, but all he does is put out, "DraftKings owes them money 'cause it's a, you know, it, it's the buzz." Uh, and, and what's that, what's that? There's a show, TMZ.
30:00
It's the TMZ of, uh, you know, whatever m- social media it is, so it just makes DraftKings look bad, and I'm, you know, like I said, I, I, I don't really like to, like to go after- Oh... unless I know I'm 100% right.
30:12
You know what the lawyer is claiming here? No.
30:14
They're claiming, I don't know if this, I don't know if he's just pulling this out of his you know what, but he says, "The rules that DraftKings had in place at the time of the tournament did not allow them to void the bets.
30:22
They changed the rules after the tournament." Well, that's different then. There, there could be some- Let's see... settlement here. Maybe.
30:27
And, uh, trust me, I'm not allowed to bet at, at DraftKings, so I'm not allowed to bet o- on their app. I, I say I'm not allowed. I'm, I'm limited to a gro- couple grocery dollars.
30:36
At the counter, they're very good to me. They take $1,000 bets, so- Mm... they're very good to me. Until that time, I'm not gonna, you know, look, look for reasons to go after them or, or anyone else, you know?
30:44
Thank you. Thank you, Mike Rouse, for reminding me to bring that up with, uh, Crack, though. I intended to do that on Monday. Okay, and then there's something else that, uh, that annoy- that's annoying you.
30:53
Oh, no, they, th- this, I mentioned on my, on my podcast, uh, the Hall of Excellence at Fontainebleau, they have this thing, a Tom Brady in collaboration with Jim Gray. I'm not a Jim Gray fan to begin with, so.
31:02
The Pete Rose thing? Yeah. No, even, even more. He, he did, he did a couple things in life that I wasn't a fan just to get himself some press.
31:09
Um, so they have this Fountain- th- this, at Fontainebleau, it's a Hall of Excellence.
31:13
It's all different memorabilia from the different athletes, Tiger Woods' first ball from the first Masters he won, and, like, all different type of things like that.
31:23
Uh, Tom Brady's, a lot of his memorabilia and, uh, th- there's, there's some great, by the way, some great things there. Air Jordan's first pair of Air Jordans that, that he ever had that came out with.
31:34
The bat used by Jackie Robinson to break the color barrier. There's some great things o- a- at this- Did you say first Air Jordans that he ever wore? Is that what you said?
31:41
Uh, if- Michael, Michael Jordan's first pair of Air Jordans- Oh... in 1984, yeah. Oh, wow. A- and, and also his, the first, uh, NBA championship shoes that were wore by Michael Jordan. Jackie Robinson's first bat?
31:52
Jackie Robinson's first bat. Some really cool things. Wow. Super Bowl rings, Muhammad Ali's gloves he wore against, uh, his, uh, great fight against Chuvalo. There's, uh, some great things here.
32:02
My thing is, why are you charging 35 bucks to get in? I knew that was, I knew this was gonna be the end of it. And, and $20 for kids to get in. Yeah. I, you, do you know the foot traffic something?
32:11
By the way, I'm only mentioning one or, like, five things. There's 150 items here. But I just think about, you know, us walking through Hard Rock and all the stuff we see for free, memorabilia. Yes.
32:20
And it's good- All of that rock and roll stuff... walk-in traffic. Yes. You know? You get walk-in traffic and people come in, and then now what do they do? They come in for free to see the thing. "Let's gamble here.
32:29
Let's go to, let's go to Mother Wolf and spend"- Exactly... $500. Yeah. "Let's gamble a little bit."
32:33
This is just, I, I, I c- it's, I can't take the gouging, and that, listen, it's too strong of a word, gouging, for this situation. I don't mean to say it. But why not just have the foot traffic come into your casino?
32:43
You're a failed casino. You're doing very... The guy that runs Fontainebleau, Mark, uh, you know, he, he's into m- marketing and stuff. He doesn't even like gamblers.
32:52
One thing about Derek Stevens, even I'll say, I said it yesterday, even Steve Wynn, they were gamblers, so they love gamblers. Derek Stevens loves gamblers, and he gambles. He gets it. He knows the pulse of the industry.
33:03
So, uh, but these c- casinos with guys with college degrees that never gambled before and don't know the pulse of the industry, I use that word a lot, um, it, it, there's, it's a shame that...
33:14
Hey, listen, I understand this is a great thing to do if you're coming from out of town, you wanna... I, I, I'll stick by what I said.
33:20
You can't be charging $20 to get in, third- $35, 20 for kids to get in just to see some memorabilia where, you know, if- it's not like you're going to the, the, the Boxing Hall of Fame where you're gonna pay to get in or the, even the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.
33:31
100% agree. You know what I mean? It's, it's Vegas. It just makes great foot traffic. Why charge people? That, that was part of the Har- the Hard Rock's charm- That's it... was all of that memorabilia. That's it. Yeah.
33:40
That's it. Free for your eyes to see. Yep. Bill, thank you. Appreciate it. All right. Crackman. I'm outta here. Bill Krackenberger, everybody, @BillCrackman with a K on Twitter. Wisecrack's the name of this podcast.
33:50
Stormy and JBT live from Omaha, the College World Series next.
33:54
[rock music] A numbers game on VSiN, the sports betting network. Live from Circuit Numbers Game, Gil Alexander.
34:11
Kelly Billing alongside as well. Hey, real quick, um, update to the US Open leaderboard. Uh, it started out real fast for, for a bunch of golfers in the first round of the US Open at Oakmont in Oakmont, Pennsylvania.
34:23
It has gotten pretty stagnant since, but JJ Spaun has not given any strokes back. Four under through 15, he is the leader by two shots over Si Woo Kim, Gary Woodland, and Thomas Detry.
34:35
A three-stroke lead over some bigger names like Ludvig Åberg and Rory McIlroy. That's where it stands right now.
34:40
JJ Spaun, who has pretty much led coast to coast thus far, uh, the first round of the United States Open from Oakmont.
34:48
So obviously, uh, we'll have, uh, full coverage and, uh, live betting notes from the tournament all day long right here at VSiN. Uh, in the meantime, most of the network is having themselves a ball.
34:58
They're in Omaha, Nebraska, for the College World Series. Um, what a scene down there. This is at, uh, Rocco's Pizza and Cantina in Omaha. Check it out. Look at the old Jello Shot Challenge. Look at that.
35:11
Um, we of course, VSiN hosts, have our own odds associated with that. I believe that Derek Stevens himself, the owner of Circa, is still the short shot to win it.
35:20
And there is the two co-hosts of Money Moves, which follow just, follows us rather, each and every day here on the network. Stormy Bonatony and JBT live from Rocco's. How you guys doing? Good.
35:31
It's been a fun start already, and we've already seen the first jello shots, by the way, be purchased at the counter. Coastal Carolina with an early [laughs] lead, JVT. Yep. Uh, yes, so I, I feel great, Gil.
35:41
I feel plucky and spry and ready to go, and in no way, shape, or form do I already feel the effects of a first night out here in Omaha. No, that doesn't sound suspicious at all.
35:50
Um, Derek Stevens plus 350 in the Vsenn Jello Shot Challenge. The field now at 4-1 is in second. Uh, JVT has, uh, been steamed to plus 550. Stormy still, uh, feisty at plus 825. All right. Good luck to you guys on that.
36:04
Hey, I, I like that I got a little bit of an adjustment there. Yeah. Down from the 12 to 1. Yep. I'm getting played, guys. I'm getting played. That's exciting.
36:10
[laughs] Uh, a little, a little inside baseball though, um, if you want to go and get down on some inside information, um, if Mitch Moss is gonna do what he did last night- [laughs]...
36:19
I'd run out to bet Mitch Moss right now. Oh, wow. Okay. That is some inside information.
36:23
[laughs] Hey, what about, so let's just talk about the games themselves for a second, 'cause I want to get your thoughts, uh, JVT, you on the NBA. Stormy, obviously you on game four of the Stanley Cup Final.
36:32
But about the College World Series, do you have any bets for the two games today, either of you? I mean, I don't have anything individually.
36:40
I do have an LSU to win it all ticket at 6-1, so we're going to be purchasing jello shots, 'cause we are a very pro-LSU show. Um, she's got her loyalties, as do I.
36:50
So I'll be sitting there and sweating that out, and we'll have some action I think too, because we're gonna be sitting in there, and we could just cross the skywalk to go over to Iowa and get in on some of this stuff too.
36:57
So, uh, for the games that are gonna start tomorrow, maybe just for one while we're sitting there watching the late game, uh, Gil. Mm-hmm. But I'll be sweating out this LSU future.
37:04
Yeah, no first game action for me just yet, but with the way that the regals, regionals and super regionals played out with so many upsets, I do like just taking a shot on Murray State in some way, shape, or form.
37:16
Have a little fun. Don't let the Racers get hot. See if they can pull off a Fresno State in 2008, something like that.
37:21
And then Matt Grissom, who we're gonna have on the show coming up in just a little bit on Money Moves, in one of his write-ups about the College World Series, he recommended the angle of backing the loser of Arkansas, LSU, w- just getting, like, a little bit of a better number if you're somebody who's just jumping in on the College World Series odds, and I think that's something that I might take as an approach, too.
37:40
Right, 'cause one of those two SEC teams, if they are to get to the promised land- Yep... they will do it from the quote, unquote, "loser bracket," because obviously LSU and Arkansas- Yep... playing each other tomorrow.
37:49
Two games tonight are the, uh, two games in bracket one, Arizona, Coastal Carolina, uh, with Coastal a, uh, minus 230 Moneyline favorite in Louisville, Oregon State with the, uh, Oregon State Beavers, independent minus 160 favorites over, uh, Louisville here.
38:05
Um, by the way, just as, before we move away from the College World Series, for those who are like, "Okay, I wanna just bet on this based on crowd support," what is you, what are you two guys' feelings on the most represented of these clubs at this point?
38:18
I mean, it's everything we're talking to, everybody we're talking to, we keep hearing LSU. Like, that's at least- Yeah... uh, everything that I have heard up to this point.
38:24
So, like, we're talking about, you brought this up, throwing tailgate skill for, like, for four games that they're not even playing in, things like that.
38:31
So I would say if you're just going on home field advantage, it sounds like the Tigers are gonna have a lot of support, just talking to people out here.
38:37
But I, I would also say, and coincidentally, Arkansas being the team that they're playing and the, the favorite to win it all right now, they've been apparently telling everybody, "Just wait for us to get out here," so we'll see if that maybe changes the game a little bit.
38:49
But I've been to the College World Series in the past, and to JVT's point, years that LSU's not even in it, they're tailgating, and their fans are out here.
38:56
So now that their team is so good and has such a good chance to win it all once again, I, I feel like they're [laughs] gonna have the advantage here.
39:03
All right, is this a situation where where you guys are broadcasting from Rocco's, were people are gonna be all, like, on top of you when you're doing your show today? Oh. Yes. Yes. I'm so excited.
39:12
So- Tomorrow more so than today, but yes. Yes, it, it, and this is, so Gil, you know, with the, you have the radio background, so when you would do remotes and you would go out, I am a man of the people.
39:20
I'm gonna be distracted tomorrow. [laughs] Like, when this thing starts popping, there's gonna be people. So for, to, for the layout, for our audience, right in front of us is, like, the jello shot bar.
39:29
Like, behind the cameras and stuff, you can't see it. So people will be coming in in front of us and behind our wonderful crew to be buying the jello shots. This thing will get a little bit more packed- Wow...
39:37
as time goes along. So yes, it will be very full. I am very excited, and I will probably get in trouble because I'll be talking to people as they come walking by. I'm very excited.
39:46
Stor- Stormy admire, is looking at you like, "Oh, great. That's, that sounds great, JVT. That should be really professional of you." [laughs] No, he's not kidding, though. He- Yeah...
39:53
he's, he's been saying it even the whole time we're sitting here. He goes, "Oh, God, I'm gonna get distracted today." [laughs] "I'm gonna get distracted." So just, I'm, I'm mentally preparing.
40:00
It's gonna be awesome, though, and they've already been so hospitable.
40:03
The owner here, Kevin, has been so great welcoming us last night and kinda giving us the lay of the land of how this all works and when the jello shots kick off and the story behind it all, and we'll get into a lot of that throughout the course of the next couple days.
40:14
All right, I don't wanna steal any of your, uh, steam before Money Moves, uh, which starts at the top of the hour. But l- let's get two minutes on hockey and two minutes on basketball.
40:21
Stormy, let's start with the Stanley Cup Final. Uh, game four tonight, Florida up 2-1 in the series. They're a minus 146 favorite.
40:29
In game number four, like the NBA, maybe not quite as dramatically, but game four up 2-1, I mean, this is so important, um, in a way that could, it's, really be the fulcrum game of the series.
40:41
How do you see this going tonight at Sunrise? Well, and it's interesting.
40:46
I, I think that because of the way that the game three played out in Sunrise and the dominant performance that Florida had and the agitation with which they brought, everybody is very much so counting out Edmonton altogether.
40:58
And we had so much talk through two games. Right. Is there any real differentiator between these two right now in the way that they're playing? Not so much.
41:05
And then you go to game three, and it's a blowout, and it's all Florida, and Florida has to win the rest of it.
41:08
I'm not sure I necessarily see it that way, and maybe I do have some bias built into that, that I thought Edmonton coming into the series was very much so capable of winning it, and I like them to win it.
41:19
But for me, Edmonton's gotta come out with desperation tonight so that they're not put in true desperation mode being down three games to none, to one, excuse me, uh, with Florida after this.
41:29
So today is a huge, critical game. I know we hate saying must-win this early in a series, but that very much so feels what it is to me today. Um, and [sighs]I don't have a bet on the side.
41:40
I have props, and we'll get into them. I, I like Evan Bouchard over his shots on goal today. You can probably ladder those. He's somebody that's been cashing that significantly, and there are a few other angles.
41:49
But side, I don't have one pick today. I lean Edmonton. I, I lean over, even though everything about the ice tells me it should be an under. Yeah. Yet here we are.
41:57
Yeah, don't, don't give it all your bets, 'cause I want people to tune into to Money Moves here at the top. But th- uh, last thing here on this.
42:03
If Florida ends up winning this, I asked this of some of our hockey experts earlier in the week. If Florida ends up winning this, where do you rank them?
42:10
Better than the Tampa Bay Lightning team that won two years and got to three straight- Mm... Stanley Cup Final teams, like this Florida Panthers team would be in that case?
42:19
I, I would say very similar, and maybe, yes, better, because they had the build.
42:23
They had to lose game one and then, uh, lose, excuse me, that first Stanley Cup Final, and then come back and win it back-to-back after that, versus Tampa that kind of petered out and lost that last one.
42:32
So maybe yes, maybe they would be better, and then they would have that Florida sunshine state supreme. All right, and before we go, JBT, um, my goodness. Pacers 2, Thunder 1.
42:44
Talk about a game four that means everything. I mean, obviously no one game means everything- Yeah... but it sor- it sure feels like game four in Indiana tomorrow night has that feel to it. Pacers, six-point dogs.
42:57
Are you surprised by that number? So I am and I'm not, right? We, we were talking about this last night here actually at Rocco's.
43:03
We were having drinks 'cause we were talking about what the opening line was gonna be, and I was like, "It's probably gonna be six." And sure enough, it opens up six. And why?
43:09
Because Gills, we've seen throughout this entire post-season, for whatever reason, if you lose a game, you get upgraded for the next game.
43:15
Now, if you're just playing these straight up losers, you're hitting it well over a 60% clip. Uh, in this round, the basic zigzag is 2 and 0, right? Uh, Oklahoma loses game one, they come back and cover game two.
43:24
Indiana loses game two, they come back, they cover game three, they win outright. So the market is really baking these, uh, these in.
43:30
But to your point, man, this is a team that is now 4 and 4 straight up with a negative 6.9 net rating on the road in this post-season. They have yet to cover a road game, now 0 and 8 against the spread.
43:40
Talk about the importance of needing to win this game if you're Oklahoma City.
43:43
I mean, dude, if you don't, you're gonna trust them that they're gonna be able to extend their life if they have to go back to Indiana one more time? It's insane.
43:50
And you and I agree, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, if Indiana pulls this off, if they win this, it's the greatest post-season run ever by any North American sports team that we can think of.
44:01
I think you can say that regardless of the result, especially when you factor in the clutch run that Tyrese Haliburton has been on. I think that this should be a run that should be remembered forever despite the result.
44:10
Stormy Bontempi, Jonathan Vontobel, the, uh, co-hosts of, uh, Money Moves, which is here every single weekday right after a Numbers game, uh, at, of course, 9:00 a.m. Pacific, 12 noon Eastern. Behave yourselves, people.
44:23
Have a good time out there. Thanks, Gill. Live from the College World Series in Omaha, Rocco's, having themselves a great time down there. Uh, should be a fun weekend.
44:32
Rocco's Pizza and Cantina in Omaha, where all the fun stuff happens. We've done all we can do. Uh, Stormy and JBT are in fact next from Omaha. Enjoy. From VSiN, the sports betting network. [upbeat rock music]
A Numbers Game
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