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May 2, 2024
A Numbers Game | May 2, 2024 | Hour 2
A Numbers Game | May 2, 2024 | Hour 2
00:00
44:23
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Transcript
0:00
[upbeat music] The numbers told the story, they always do. He's one of those idiots who believe in analytics. This is a Numbers Game with Gil Alexander on VSiN.
0:10
Hour number two of a Numbers Game at VSiN, the sports betting network, vsin.com, Game Plus, iHeartRadio, YouTube TV. However you're taking us in, we appreciate it.
0:18
It's Gil Alexander, it's Kelly Midlin, live from Bar Canada at the D, and the Crack Man is standing by unscripted. First though, we got tweets of Beating the Book.
0:28
Uh, New York Mess 16, "Scott, ironic that Philly would complain about outside fans when they promote travel tours to other team venues. Also, is Maxie the new Reggie Miller to the Knicks? Eight points in nine seconds."
0:41
Yes, that was the comp. That was absolutely the comp, the Reggie Miller game against the Knicks where he is, uh, making the choke sign to, uh, Spike Lee.
0:48
Um- Yeah, the only thing about that is, uh, it was, it was Joel Embiid was the new Reggie Miller before Tyrese Maxie became the new Reggie Miller, uh, all within the past two weeks. So I, I don't know. [laughs] Yeah.
0:59
That was unbelievable. It was. It was. It was incredible. Brian M, "Uh, hmm. Boxing and horse racing on the show today. Putting in your bets via the Pony Express?
1:08
The guys in the back should put on a, uh, black and white filter." [laughs] That's right, should've done the show [laughs] in black and white today.
1:13
Brian Shaver, Brian Shaver was the guy who, uh, was all about the, uh, Phillies. He was like, "Watch out for the Phillies," in March, April. I don't know if he had a bet on it.
1:20
Uh, but he says he's sweating Iga to win minus six and a half games right now. "Let's go," he says. How is, uh, young Iga doing against, uh, Maddie Keys? Well, she's up six one, three one, so your bet's looking...
1:31
I don't wanna say anything, I don't wanna jinx it. So far so good though. Uh, Nathan Mallinson, "As a South African," he says, "I don't watch, follow, bet, or even understand the rules of baseball.
1:41
But a few nights ago, I found myself streaming an MLB game, rooting on the Guardians-" [laughs] "... on your behalf. Great bet." Thank you, Nathan. This is- That was the experience. I need to know more about this.
1:51
We have, uh, we, we have gotten so many of these kinds of tweets. Joe Balicious signed up for MLB.tv just to watch it. Nathan Mallinson, a South African, experiencing it that way. I cannot thank you guys enough.
2:00
Like, it just, it's so great, so- Yeah, it's awesome, but I'm just more fascinated now with, like, did you know, you know, did you know when a good thing was a good thing? Right?
2:08
Like, I mean, baseball is not easy to understand- Oh, dude... if you don't know [laughs] what it is. I've said that, I've told you a story about my dad all these years.
2:14
Like, he watched the Skins with me, but he never could understand baseball. Right. And so one day we finally took him to Orioles Park at Camden Yards, and he goes, "Jesus Christ, I see the whole field now."
2:26
[laughs] Like, you don't realize that on TV in baseball you never see the entire diamond at any point, let alone the entire ballpark, and so he couldn't process it that way.
2:38
I'm just try- like, if you bet on a cricket match today, would you know when a good thing happened or not? No. Me. Off the, off the bat? No pun intended. [laughs] That's, uh- Not that it's called a bat, probably...
2:48
I was like whoa, whoa. Yeah. Maybe he knows what he's talking about. No, no, absolutely not, I would not. Me either. It would take me a...
2:52
Like, do you ever think about that, like, when you're a kid, like how many times it took you to understand a sport? When you're a kid it's, like, almost instantaneous.
2:59
You're like, you watch it a couple times and you're like, "Oh, I got this." Yeah, no, I've never thought about that- Right... because you're right, it is, it's, like, instant.
3:05
But baseball, and we've talked about this before- Yeah... is virtually impossible to explain to someone because as you're explaining it, you realize this sport is ridiculous. Yeah.
3:15
'Cause there's rules within rules within rules. "Wha- what do you mean that that was a fly ball, you just told me?"
3:21
"Yeah, but when he's on first and the guy catches it, then he can tag up and he can advance after the catch. It's called a sacrifice play." "Oh." [laughs] "Um, wait, what do you mean an infield fly rule?
3:30
What do you mean it was already way...?" "Well, that's a rule if the ball's in the infield, then..." "Uh, what do you mean that's not a third strike? Why is he running to first?"
3:37
"Well, 'cause on the third strike if first base is empty and the catcher drops it..." Like, there's so many of these things- Yeah...
3:42
that you have to watch a million baseball games to- I actually, I think the game of baseball is more difficult to explain. I think the rules of football for where they're at now would be tougher to expl- Oh.
3:51
Like, what, what's illegal and what's not? Well, that, we're all learning that together ourselves. Right, exactly, yeah. [laughs] Right.
3:57
But, like, football's just four plays to get 10 yards, and if you're too far away on the fourth you can choose to punt, you know? Uh, Andrew Ren, "Video poker sounds like it's popping off this morning."
4:05
[laughs] Yeah, it's true. Uh- It's actually been quiet. Don't jinx it. Yeah, don't jinx it.
4:09
Alec Carlisle, "Every time I hear this week's commercial with the excerpt from you sh- from your show asking if Kelly would be interested in a bet, it reminds me of the Entourage episode where Bob Ryan asked that, like, 100 times.
4:19
Uh, that is why I say it, because of that Entourage episode." Martin Landau, the great Martin Landau playing that character. And then, uh, finally CJ, "Can't go another year hearing 107.5 The Bone, Gil.
4:29
It's 107.7 The Bone." [laughs] Okay. I stand corrected. Ladies and gentlemen, Unscripted with the Crack Man, Bill Krackomberger. [upbeat music] Vegas baby!
4:49
Oh, yeah. Best intro... Whoa. Oh, sorry. Love it. All right, well, I'll fly. [laughs] Cut off very, uh, very dramatically there. Best intro in the business- Love it... for Bill Krackomberger. You're a little hoarse.
5:00
How you doing, man? Oh, just, uh, I, I might still be on East Coast time. Oh, okay. But, uh, how you guys doing? Everything going good this week? Very well.
5:08
[laughs] Nothing, nothing that I can think of happened around here, Bill. Oh. Other than a, uh, other than a little baseball incident we had. He, he had a long shot Guardians bet, uh- Oh... that didn't hit home.
5:18
Oh, yesterday? Yeah. Okay. March and April. Oh, oh, oh, I gotcha. We're one out away from, uh, 65 to one hitting and then- Wow...
5:25
then it- They, they were, uh, they, they were, they were really playing above their, uh, head there for a while. Uh, you say that, but you know if you, uh, had followed the reasoning for the handicap- Right...
5:34
you would be like, "No, that's actually what they should do." Well, no, no, no. That 60- Yeah... f- I mean, they, they shouldn't- Right... uh, should they be that close to a 65 to one- No, it's a bad number- Oh...
5:40
is what I'm saying. Oh. But we're one out away, Bill, and then w- we got our, we got our heart taken out of our bodies. So was there any kind of hedge involved? Yeah, there was a hedge the, the couple nights before.
5:50
But, but again, it, it's, there's so many teams in the scrum that it's not an easy hedge until it got to the very end there. I gotcha. I gotcha. Yeah. Um, yeah, so you guys know I was back east.
6:00
I'm sure you said about, um, Howie who was gonna be on the show. We talked about Howie, yeah. Yeah.
6:03
And, um, it was very unexpected for me, so you understand I was actually gonna stay with the guy a couple days, a couple nights later and, uh- Our condolences again to you, Bill. My condolences.
6:12
Uh, for those who missed it, uh, Bill is dear friends with H- oh, dear friends with Howie Schwab. Uh, Howie Schwab was most known for...
6:19
Literally, and we said this the, the other day, Bill, uh, Thursday last, oh, exactly a week ago w- in your absence, that Stump the Schwab on ESPN was actually l- live on air for only two years, and then was so popular it was in reruns for a long time after that.
6:33
But he was a dear friend of yours. You did the show from his house- Yeah, that's right... um, many times. Yeah. He's, he, he, we had him on one time- Yep...
6:42
courtesy of you, and you let me speak with him on the phone after the show once. Yep. Uh, and he passed away, um- Unexpectedly at 63. Unexpectedly, yeah.
6:50
And, uh, it just, uh, I, I know you, you know, people are fans and people have, you know, heard this before.
6:54
We don't mean to reit- reiterate over and over, but you know, like, I, after speaking to his wife a couple times now and, um, it, it, it just, it got to me because only, like, like, literally no one that close to me has died since my mother passed away.
7:08
I didn't realize I talked to the guy every single week. Yeah. Every week. I was the last person he tweeted to, um, I, I, you know, five hours before he died.
7:16
I mean, and, uh, it was unexpected a- and, and, um, he, he was in the hospital, but it w- he, he had an infection that probably wasn't diagnosed properly.
7:26
And, uh, you know, in Florida the, the healthcare is just, it's like Nevada. It's not that good. You know, you have to stay on top of... His wife was very upset. I mean, she literally brought him dinner
7:36
and then three hours later he died, and he was fine. She said he was talking, he was coherent. We had conversations and- Yeah...
7:43
and, uh, so it was very unexpected like I said and, and, um, you know, my condolences to the fans too, the, the fans get to meet, you know... Howie Schwab was like sports Google before Google. So.
7:54
That's what, that's what Dan Patrick said about him. Oh, yeah. Okay. There you go. Yeah. He really was.
7:58
I mean, he really honestly, like, I would be hard-pressed to name anyone else that we've ever come across, either personally or just through the TV- Right... who had more encyclopedic sports knowledge than he did.
8:12
Now, also, you wanna talk about him as a human being and a person, how Bill Krackomberger met him. I met him through Teddy Atlas at one of his dinners, his foundation dinners, where he bought my auction.
8:22
So I had an auction where I, I would give away a Vegas trip, four nights to a, a nice casino here, airfare, a room, I'm sorry, a, a show of their choice, whatever show they wanted, and then I would give them a, a, a nice meal at Joe's.
8:35
And so he bought that meal for, like, eight grand, and he bought it a couple years in a row, so I got to be really good friends with him. And he was very charitable. He, look no further than Dick Vitale.
8:45
He went to Dick's gala every year in Sarasota and, um, he introduced me to Dick. I had Dick on my show, uh, a Wisecrack s- podcast and, and, uh, he, he was just v- he gave away a lot of money.
8:57
It's like, you know, he, he gave away a lot of money. People don't know about how charitable and how, how, how m- you know, internally, what a good guy he was. So, um, you know, here he rest in peace, Howie Schwab.
9:07
So he had his funeral back in New York. You know, his mom is still alive, so his mom is like 90 years old and that- Oh, man...
9:14
really hurt her, 'cause she's very, very, you know, she, she, you know, she's ab- she lives alone. She's perfect. I've spoken to her with Howie. His dad just passed away a year and a half ago.
9:23
So, um, you know, you're, you're talking about a guy that, that wasn't...
9:26
It makes you almost, I don't know, I don't wanna say s- uh, [sighs] I don't wanna say atheist or agnostic, but s- it's definitely makes me more cynical, like, uh, how a good guy...
9:36
And every day he woke up trying to give, trying to help people, trying to help, you know, different... He, he would go on air, he would do interviews with people, no problem.
9:44
Never turned down anything, and, um, helping people and, uh, always wanting to try. He always, he used to always try to pay for dinners and lunches. I wouldn't let him, but, um, he, he would.
9:53
Ev- every time I went down there I- he said, "You're staying with me." I said, "Howie," I, I was always staying in a, in a hotel, and he's like, "No, no, no.
10:01
If I find out you come down here and you're staying at a hotel, we're gonna have a problem." [laughs] No, he, he was- He was at Aventura? He lives at Aventura overlooking Gulfstream racetrack- Yeah...
10:10
a ridiculously beautiful, beautiful, um, high-rise there- Yeah... uh, that, that he, that he moved into and, um, he, he know, he, he enjoyed a lot of his life, too. 26 years at ESPN.
10:22
Um, you know, i- i- if you guys don't mind, um, just in this last minute here I'll, I'll even read...
10:28
I, I went and found something and I put it on Twitter and, you know, not that I'm trying to go after ESPN, but ESPN PR put a nice thing, "Oh, we remember Howie Schwab and our great esteemed co-" Give me a break, ESPN, I said.
10:42
You know, I said, "He doesn't want to be remembered by you." And I tagged ESPN and ESPN PR. This is Howie's words. "26 years at ESPN. I'm extremely disappointed to say farewell.
10:52
I have been proud of my association and my work during my tenure. I was a loyal employee, displayed respect for others, worked with numerous charities, represented the company well.
11:02
I always did everything asked of me and more. What did I get in return today? Word that I should get lost. The only thing that mattered was my salary, which in my view was the lone reason I lost my job."
11:13
So give me a break, ESPN. And people said, "Oh, Bill, aren't you worried about, like, ESPN? You, you shouldn't say anything bad because, you know, you may have to try..." I don't care.
11:22
Thank God that I bet sports for a living. I don't have to worry about ESPN and their culture. Give me a break. I hope, uh, Howie found much peace and contentment afterwards- Yes... uh, in his, uh, in his twilight years.
11:35
Uh, may he rest in peace. Condolences to the family. More with the Crack Man, Bill Krackomberger. You can follow at Bill Crack Man with a K on Twitter. Wisecracks is the name of the podcast.
11:45
Coming back on a Numbers Game at Visa, the sports betting network. [upbeat music]Back on a Numbers Game, live from Bar Canada. Bar Canada.
12:01
The barrage at the D. It's Gil Alexander, it's Kelly Bidlin, it's Bill Krackenberger. Unscripted with the Krack Man. Tomorrow on the show, Kelly, not sure if you're aware of this. I sure did. Load- I say jokingly.
12:13
Preston Johnson, I believe, right? Owner of Crawley Town. Make sure that Preston will be on later today. Uh, and, uh, Pablo Torre from the DK Network. Uh, what's the name of his podcast? Pablo Torre Finds Out.
12:26
Pablo Torre Finds Out, yeah. The- Excited to have him on... it is a spectacular podcast, by the way. Oh, it's awesome. Yeah.
12:33
And I wanna ask him, like, what, for how long has he had the notion, "What I wanna do is a podcast where I just investigate all kinds of stuff." [laughs] Like, questions I want answered, that's all I'm doing.
12:45
It's awesome. I was talking to the producer yesterday. I know they're working on a Kentucky Derby type special that I cannot wait to hear him talk about- Oh, my God...
12:52
because it's something that I would have loved to [laughs] have been a part of, too.
12:56
We'll also have, uh, Chris Felica on, talking Derby with us, and then Drew Dincic from Churchill Downs, and you were just saying he's a, he has makeup being applied right now for his spot with NBC? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:06
That's what I'm seeing, uh- Yeah... w- with one of my, uh, group chats. I think he's, uh, in the makeup chair right now for NBC. [laughs] Is it going okay? It's going great. Sounds like it's going great.
13:14
[laughs] Uh, this, by the way, uh, Krack, uh, we just got this, uh, this tw- uh, tweet. Felica just sent this to us, and this is a tweet. We're talking about Howie Schwab, your buddy now. Yep.
13:25
This is from Jason McCallum, who apparently is a, uh,
13:30
producer with SVP, a senior producer with SVP, and he said, "When, uh, the Richmond Spiders made the 2012 Sweet 16," he said, "I was ESPN's lead college basketball researcher.
13:41
Howie talked to my bosses about my schedule, and then used his miles to get me a flight and hotel to watch my alma mater, all without me knowing until he told me I was going." Jesus. And, and that's Howie.
13:53
Legendary man, legendary man in ESPN-er RIP. Thank you, Chris. Thanks for that. I, I didn't know, and that's just- Jason McCallum, yeah... an example of what I mean by Howie. That's exactly who he was and who he is.
14:04
Um, you know, so this week on, on, uh, on Wisecracks, John Orlando and I had a guest on, and, you know, I'm tough on the horse race game.
14:14
I'm pretty tough because I just know growing up, grow- um, growing up a little horse race degen like myself, living by Monmouth Park and running around to between Aqueduct and, and, um, you know, the Meadowlands and, you know, I, I was a kid.
14:29
I was 15 years old. My buddies, we were all cool, you know? And, and, and we, uh, didn't realize the, the takeout and how hard it is to beat horses and, and, uh, you know, you just don't look at that stuff.
14:38
You just look at, at, at what you're doing and wh- you know, you're in the moment. So I actually don't know many people that make a living betting horses.
14:48
I knew the Matisse brothers did because I have dealt with them in the past, and I've been thrown out of many spots, uh, betting their, what they tell me to bet.
14:58
So I s- I, and I didn't know he would publicly come on my show, which he did last year. I asked him to come on again this year, Paul Matisse. He did. That's out now.
15:07
It'll be out later on on YouTube and, and, um, wherever you get your podcasts.
15:11
Percentage of sports bettors that make a living exclusively betting sports with no other source of income versus percentage of horse bettors- Oh, God...
15:19
who make an income exclusively from betting horses without any other source of income. Who wins? What's the higher percentage? Oh, sports. Sports. No, by far. By far. By... Well, define by far.
15:29
I, I, I know two people that make a living betting horses. How many do you know in sports? A dozen. So [laughs] it's not, it's not by that much, is it? [laughs] Six, six to one. By, by far.
15:38
Well, it- Yeah, it is six to one, but it's still 12 to two... I was gonna answer your original question with it's small, it's small and small. Yeah. One's just smaller than the other. Yeah.
15:44
And the two that make a living betting horses used to make a ton more, but that could be said for sports, too. It's that tough betting sports- Oh, for sure... too. But- Yeah...
15:52
um, like, you know, like horse race match-ups, if that's part of their repertoire, that is a beatable event, and that means betting a horse against another horse to finish higher.
16:01
It doesn't have to win, just has to beat that horse. And what's interesting is that when we have horse racing guests, that is not their go-to often, it doesn't seem like. No, it's not. Um, you're, you're correct.
16:14
And, and- Yeah... now we just got a text again from Chris, which- Yeah... I, I didn't even know he knew these guys, and he actually mentioned the, the one, his, the brother's name, who I actually know.
16:23
I know both of them. Duke's the one that got me thrown out, by the way, on Chris. Duke Witsie. Yeah. So, um, yeah, these guys are, are, are winners at... Um, I, I, I had Paul on my show yesterday.
16:32
He lives up in Saratoga. So- Are you betting the Derby? Uh, I wasn't going to until I had him on my show. So- And, and now? So there's a bet now you can make.
16:42
By, uh, by the way, I heard your guest earlier say they couldn't, couldn't bet Triple Crown or something, the hor- I, I don't know where he's not looking either.
16:48
He must not be looking behind us 'cause they have the bet- Yeah, I don't think he said that. Did he? Where is, where is Alex then? I thought, I thought he said he couldn't find a r- fierceness to win the Triple Crown.
16:55
I thought he said that on the show. Oh, maybe. Maybe I missed it. I could be wrong. I maybe missed it. No, no. Yeah.
16:58
But better yet, there's, you know, I mean, here is, he's plus 10 and a half to one here to win the Triple Crown. So you could bet the horse- Fierce, fierceness you're talking about... fierceness to b- he thinks- Yeah...
17:07
he thinks the horse is that good. Even though he ran two bad races, he thinks that the horse is that good, uh, that, that, that would be a good bet, he said, because you make a bet on that and then you can actually...
17:20
You know, he's now, he's gonna, he's gonna be a big favorite in the, the Preakness and the Belmont. Yeah. So, um, but he also gave me a long shot that he likes just to win the race. He's... I, I... You know what?
17:31
I'm sorry, guys, I don't know the odds. Maybe Chris can help us here with the odds. There's a horse called Catching Freedom. Yep. Are we even allowed to bet that in this time of, of life, uh, freedom?
17:40
[laughs] Um, Catching Freedom, though, is, is the horse that, um, he said that has, has some, has a good shot there, too. So, uh, there's, there's, uh- There's a couple. See, uh, two- I would see about eight to one.
17:51
Eight to one. Eight to- Yeah. I'm seeing, no, I'm seeing north of 10 to one. Oh, 10 to one. Okay, good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, 10 to one. So, so you can, you can, uh...
17:57
And by the way, some of these pools, you could, you could bet them now and have that line for race day. Like, in other words, you bet it now, and you actually get that, uh, the odds there.
18:08
In case the odds are f- reflected in the racetrack where it goes down, you still can lock up an odd- odds today. So, um, I wasn't even planning really to watch the race, but I am...
18:18
Not that I should, I shouldn't said that. I, I enjoyed it when I was younger. I just know, um, it's so tough to beat. But when it comes to value, um, just like Paul said, there is value in these type of races compared to
18:34
betting daily, which, you know, he, he actually made some comments to me that I, I, I really liked. Like, the parimutuel system is really broken.
18:43
Fixing the odds in the last minute and calculating the odds, the ability to bet last and get tote information. Now, what, what I'm talking about here, it's really deep, but let's just be blunt.
18:55
This is like inside information that the tracks are giving to certain horse racing syndicate groups. So they're giving them the tote information.
19:04
They're, they're giving them the ability to bet last second, and I mean last second when the bell rings.
19:10
Um, he said that these type of computer groups are out there are winning and ruining it for guys that have made their living, um, like the Alan Boston of horse racing, doing the work by hand. Right.
19:22
These type of groups, syndicates are, are, are ruining it for, uh, the, those type of guys that grind it out. I think of a guy like- Wait, explain that though. How do they- It's h- How do they get it at the last minute?
19:33
It, it... Listen, it's legal, too. Yeah. They, they've made deals with the parimutuel system. They made deals with the racetracks and have the ability to get the tote, the real tote information.
19:45
This way, they don't have to know anything about the race. They can just know- They just get the best of it at the end... they just know the best of it. Yeah. That's exa- Are you... I'm glad you cleared that up. Yeah.
19:51
That's exactly correct. Yeah. No. Um, but yeah, this... So, so I would think this would be illegal. It's like, that's like inside information. In- instinctively, it would sound that way, yeah.
20:00
It, it, it sounds that way, but according- Yeah... to Paul, it's not. And it's going on, and it hurts, it hurts guys like him. Uh, even though he, he's a horse owner.
20:07
He owns about 10 horses, but- What, what is the racetrack's incentive to do that? I, I, you know, I, I don't know. You know, I, I said it on the show to him yesterday. Yeah.
20:14
I said, "Listen, why would the racetrack do that unless someone on the inside's in with them?" Right. Right. That's why my brain just works that way. Mine too.
20:20
And, um, probably really didn't have an answer, you know, for that. So- Interesting. That's- I have a more basic question. What's... I- is the tote just the, the handle on each horse, basically?
20:30
Well, yeah, I guess it, that, that shows you each, the, the win pool, how much of the percentage of the win pool that that horse is in. But to get the real one when human instinct, human nature is to bet last. Even here.
20:41
Look at, look at- Yeah... every Sunday in NFL sports book. People get shut out every week at all across town. Same thing with the horses. They like to bet last second, last minute.
20:50
So if you had something that was really true odds of the last second, true tote board of the last second, if you're, you know, a, um, one of these mathematical genius guys and could put that into your calculation in a matter of seconds and say, "Hey, this is the value.
21:06
It's a two horse," you, you don't have to even know who the two horse is. Right. You just... You could, it could be... The, the horses don't have to have a name. One, two, three, four.
21:12
You don't have to have a name, no, no, no, no back history on the horse, no... This is nothing, nothing to do with the racing form. And, um, supposedly that's going on, uh, i- in the industry.
21:23
Um, and now, now they're, they're Elite Turf Club totally embed- I, I, I don't know if you're supposed to read that or not. Oh, okay. Yeah, I don't know. We'll have to ask. [laughs] All right.
21:30
All right, yeah, we'll have to ask that. You're right. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Actually- Sorry. Sorry... we're getting live- Yeah, I, I think that- We're getting live texted...
21:36
everything that's, that, that's texted to me I can read out loud. Yeah. No, no, no, we shouldn't. So anyway, that just goes to show you that stuff is going on. So stuff's going on in the horse race game.
21:45
Already, the, the poor public that comes in with his buddies trying to beat a 20% takeout now has to deal with these syndicates and these inside information things that are going on, and I just thought it was...
21:57
Listen, watch... If, if you guys w- want more infor- information about this, watch this podcast.
22:02
More importantly, watch the last podcast I had with him about a year and a half ago where he really spilled the beans on this kind of thing.
22:10
Um, you could just Google Paul Matisse, M-A-M-A-T-T-I-E-S, uh, on YouTube and his show with me.
22:16
So I, I just thought it was really good that he kind of, uh, revealed this and just to s- you know, what's going on in the horse race game. Not Henri Matisse, not, uh, Matisse Tybal. Right. Paul Matisse. Correct.
22:27
But Duke Matisse and, uh- And, uh, Paul... and Paul Matisse. Okay. More with the Crack Man. Very interesting stuff. Not a world in which we typically- No... exist. That's right. Uh, coming back.
22:38
Bill Krackomberger on the Numbers Game at VSAN, the sports betting network. [upbeat music] Are you ready to become your own sports betting expert?
22:50
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22:56
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23:06
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23:19
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23:34
Visit vsin.com/subscribe today to claim your 14 months of VSAN Pro for only $199 with promo code ANG. A-N-G, like A Numbers Game. Easy to remember. That's V-S-I-N.com/subscribe. Gil Alexander.
23:50
That's the voice of Kelly Bidlin, everybody. I like the graphic, by the way. It's like the, uh- Oh, I like it... it, it's the font of, like, that goes on, like, used cars. You know what I mean?
23:59
[laughs] It's probably not what you wanted to compare it to- [laughs] But yeah, no, I get it. Like a car tag. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about. Our prices have slashed. That's right, we're slashing prices.
24:07
[laughs] And they throw that thing down on the car's windshield. All right, I'm starting to read that way. We're slashing prices here.
24:13
We're gonna get, uh, we don't, we don't take callers on the show, but you, you had a great suggestion off air. Would you like to share it?
24:17
Well, I, like, one of my favorite things of coming to work at VSiN was that we don't have to, we don't take calls like a spor- a sports talk show where we've, we've worked in the past, and that, that can be great sometimes.
24:28
Sometimes it can be a little bothersome. You gotta, you gotta, you know, you gotta vet the calls and everything like that. Um, so I love that.
24:34
But, uh, we might need, like, a Chris Fallica, Will Hill just hotline- [laughs]... because, like, the text messaging during, just call in. Just call. Yeah, crack, like say, "Oh, they're in bed with..." "Hey, stop it."
24:44
[laughs] Uh, Phil Weiss, "Was, uh, Fornital's father Pete Fornital legendary WNEW and WPLJ 1970s disc jockey?" Phil, I think so. Wow. I used to listen to those stations. Wow. I think so. PLJ 95. It was 95.5, I believe.
25:02
Oh, this is a great one, Tim Johnson, he, uh, he's great at... He said, "I laugh every time these NBA broadcasts mention the 79% win rate for game five winners."
25:13
[laughs] "Isn't it a coin flip at 75- a 75% rate under the same conditions?" Yes, it is. Uh, Mike Alvarez, "I was offline yesterday, and I remember when this show would hit on 100 to 1 College World Series futures.
25:26
Now we can't even cash a simple 65 to 1 futures ticket? You suck, Alexander." [laughs] The groundskeeper from Major League is r- [laughs] is right. They are still a bad team also. He didn't say those words. What a loser.
25:40
What a loser. Ben Wilson's on next Friday. Maybe he can give some College- Maybe, maybe-... [laughs] College World Series picks... maybe he can help us out. For God's sake, sorry about that.
25:48
Uh, this is, uh, by the way, Eagle wins, and, uh, my man Brian Shaffer, uh, cashes his bet minus six and a half. She wins six one six three. There we go. There's the fly.
25:57
Bobby Gettys, "I think I have said the word guardians more times in the last week than I've said the word Indians in the last 30 years.
26:04
If this was a movie, it would be called Guardians of the Tragedy, the things betting does to us." Oh, Jack Larkin, uh, from Sports Trade saying, uh, they've officially launched in Iowa. Nice. Congratulations.
26:14
Iowa, there you go. Uh, Alec Carlisle, "Thank you for pronouncing my name correctly. Almost never happens." Really? People don't pronounce Alec Carlisle pronounced, uh, correctly? Forest Lehman, "Pablo Torre rocks.
26:24
Great get tomorrow. Can't wait." I'm looking forward to it. Uh, Teddy Rek, "Listening to Bill and Gil talk about the Schwab on VSiN has me tearing up just a bit." Aw, that's nice of him.
26:38
I just, I just actually sent him a DM and said thank you. Matt F, "I believe Peter said he didn't see any horse winning the Triple Crown this year, not that he couldn't find odds." Oh, okay. And this is interesting.
26:49
Okay, Vegas Vice wants to add some clarification. Yeah. I think this is a good tweet. Here he goes.
26:53
"The track incentive to allow the computer groups to put bets in last is that they bet large amounts, and the track keeps a percentage of the handle, hence the track incentive is to generate increased handle.
27:05
It will eventually kill horse racing for everyday players." Wow. How about that? That's interesting. So in other words, he's saying it's a good thing? No, he's, he's not saying, he's for the collective. Oh, for them.
27:16
For the collective he's saying it's a bad thing. Okay, good. Yeah. 'Cause I was about to say, does he believe in, like, uh, mermaids and, uh, unicorns? Oh, no, no, no. No. He, he was very clear. He was- Yes, he was good.
27:24
No, he was good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, they do. They get, uh, I guess on the win bets I, I'll use for a low 15%, whereas I think it's higher than that actually, but maybe New York.
27:34
In New York it might be 14, but, um, so they get, they get a percent. So if someone's betting $10,000, they're getting 1,500 for giving them the right to do that.
27:44
Uh, but I just don't f- quite fully understand why they would do it because they're, what they're doing, like, like, just like Vegas Vice said, it would h- it hurts Joe Public in the end.
27:56
They're cannibalizing their own sport. Right. Yeah, yeah. That's good words. Yeah, yeah. That's what they're doing. It, it, it hurts the, the, the, the, you know, the Joe Public guys. But, um, you know,
28:06
uh, another thing, guys, that I wanted to, I wanted to talk about, um, in Vegas here. So there's a big thing going on with, with, uh, Resorts World, and they, they got rid of their president or whatever it may be.
28:17
But you know what? Let me talk about the other side of this. It's the KYC law that's, the casinos are supposed to follow, know your customer.
28:25
So a casino host, a vice president of player development, a vice president of marketing, all the way up to the top of every casino in town, do you think they hate this law?
28:38
They hate that they have to find out where the customer's money comes from. Backtrack a second. Sure. What, so explain what you're referring to here. What happened?
28:46
Well, it's, it's just, let, let's, I'm talking about the law itself, the KYC law, the know your customer in general for any big high rollers that come in, they wanna know.
28:55
They want you to know where the customer's money comes in if they're losing over 10 grand, over 10, you know, or in general, and if they give them a credit line, if they issue you a credit line, if they- Right, but what-...
29:05
let you gamble big. But what I was getting at is- At Resorts World- You return, you were- Yeah... you're referring to the Ohtani situation. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Uh, well, th- th- yes, Ohtani or- Yeah...
29:13
at Resorts World, they got rid of the, the president there. Yeah. Because, and he pleaded guilty.
29:17
He's gonna be sentenced in May j- uh, to, to, uh, you know, for, for knowing about where these customers, these bookmakers' monies come from. The, the- M- m- multiple...
29:25
the bookmaker in question was laundering money through Resorts World. That's what they say. Al- allegedly. That's what they say. Allegedly. Um, listen, um, I'll just tell you this. Such a good word, allegedly.
29:36
[laughs] If, if, if- Didn't Rome used to do that? He would say something and be like, "Allegedly." Yeah. [laughs] It is. You g- you g- it is. Yeah. Allegedly. Allegedly.
29:43
If casino executives had to turn down anyone that's gambling in their casinos due to previous nefarious activity- Well said... the casinos would probably close. They wouldn't be able to stay in business.
29:59
That's how much people come in. Atlantic City was built on mob money. What you are suggesting, Bill Krackenberger, is that these types of people may have- I'm not looking at bookmakers. In general. [laughs] In general.
30:10
No, I'm saying in general, people who gamble a lot of money- Yeah... may have-... sketchy background sometimes Listen, like I said, Atlantic City was- [laughs]...
30:19
built on mob guys coming down and dumping bag fulls of money on the crap table. I'm being sarcastic, yes. No, I know. Yeah, yeah. That, that, that's how, that's how it was built. I mean- Yeah...
30:26
uh, look at the show American Greed. All right? The, it's on- American Greed... American Greed. Now that, I, I'm... It, it's a great show.
30:33
Look how the percentage of those shows have some type of gambling in the background where people were stealing money to gamble, whether it be the stock market, buying, uh, you know, Bitcoin, of course horse racing, casino gambling.
30:47
So look at the money. In the end, the casinos get the money, and guess what? They don't have to give it back. So g- give me a break with this, you know, th- the KYC and we have to instruct this.
31:00
Every casino in town w- wouldn't be able to last if you, uh, couldn't take people's money that were making money, you know, doing something in their lifetime that was nefarious. I'll use that word.
31:11
Um, anyway, that, that- I, I love American Greed. Yeah, me too. Kelly, Kelly, have a- Who's the voice to that guy? Who's the- Stacey Keach. Stacey Keach. Where'd you come up with that? 'Cause I- Is that in front of you?
31:20
Uh, no, because I... The... Why do I love that show more than anything? Stacey Keach. Is because- It's fun working with him every day. Yes... 'cause- How did he get that? Because I- Let me see this computer...
31:29
be- no, there's nothing. [laughs] It's started. Because I checked on this when I became fa- 'cause, 'cause, uh, Deborah Song, fashion stylist, she loves these crime, these true crime shows.
31:38
So she's watching American Greed, and all I kept hearing was, "American Greed. When American Greed comes back, Kelly Bidlin thought he could get away with a crime." That's the way he does it. [laughs] "But he couldn't."
31:49
Right? I never knew- Like the whole time... I never knew how sick- I'm gonna have to watch this now... Listen, I never knew how sick he was. Yes. He just came up- Yes, he is... with the voice. No, that's exactly it.
31:56
It's Stacey Keach. [laughs] So the whole time I'm like, "Who is the voiceover guy?" So I Googled it back then, and I'm like, "Oh- But he was a big actor in his day too, right? He was a big actor. Yeah, Stacey Keach.
32:04
He's probably- What was he, like some-... 80 years old. I mean- Oh, he's gotta be 1,000... a B actor. Yeah. But he's in a lot of things, though. He's gotta be 1,000 years old. But if you wa- American Greed is very good.
32:12
Lots of, uh- American Greed... but the gambling industry, it, it profits a lot from those American Greed episodes. You know, what, what, what happened when, you know, people stealing money. What do they...
32:20
Think about it. What are you stealing money for? What are you being greedy for? To obtain items and, and materialistic things. Gambling is usually involved in that.
32:30
So, um, and then you have the people that gamble just to, that steal money just to gamble 'cause they're, uh, degens. And I, I, I get it. I mean, I see the, these stories and I'm like, "Wow."
32:38
But you know, I just wanted to talk about this KYC law and how they're saying, "Well, yeah, you have to know..." Do you think a casino host wants to go up to a guy that's stuck 6,000? Right. And say, "Oh, by the way, Mr.
32:48
Jones- Yeah... where does your money come from?" "I'm stuck 6,000. Let me... Get, get out of here. Get away from me."
32:53
You know, like, like, you know, it's, um- And yet if it's in their interest, they, they are very often able to use compliance laws or whatever definition they want to actually get it out somehow.
33:03
Compliance departments are funny. Yeah. They're, they're really funny. Yeah.
33:06
They, they, they, they don't th- anyone that works in compliance for a casino, they should hire, make sure they gambled in their life, then they get the job in compliance. Give me a break.
33:15
When American Greed continues- Right... Kelly Bidlin gets his comeuppance. Right. [laughs] That sounds just like it, though. It sounded- I know this guy. Now you're talking about him. And he's only 82 years old.
33:26
Okay, come on. [laughs] Wow. That's good. Kelly, you would be awesome on that show. There goes Kelly. [upbeat music] Sports Betting Network.
33:44
So we just went from Stevie Wonder Boogie on Reggae Woman to Bob Seger's Night Moves. Who is DJing at the D? I like it.
33:52
Don't miss out on any of the NBA playoff action at DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA.
33:57
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34:06
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34:19
Love you all. Uh, Roger Jones, "Guys, what Crack heard from the, uh, Matisse brothers is 100% correct. The tracks let these computer groups bet last because they pour tons of money through the window.
34:30
You didn't wanna say Elite Turf Club, but didn't. Check news on them." [laughs] It was more that there was a name associated with it that I, uh, stopped Crack from saying. Uh, let's see.
34:39
Michael Burns, "Computer advanced wagering, CAWs," that's what they're called- Oh, wow... are hor- Thank you, guys. They-... are horrible for the game. Tracks have part ownership of these groups.
34:49
They have part ownership of these groups. He goes, "I bet for 40 years. I'm out. They're just stealing money in broad daylight." That's exactly what we just said last segment, that this is more, he's more telling you.
35:00
But did he s- also say that the tracks have a piece of it? That's what he said. That's what he wrote. Come on. Oh my God. The silent Mike D... Oh, silent Mike D, this is completely correct.
35:12
He goes, "This race group discounting is very much like front-running in the stock market or pay for order flow, which is legal and why we have no commission trades.
35:21
Uh, read any of those Michael Lewis stock market books like Liar's Poker." Right. Um, it is just, it will make your head explode. You read them, by the way, written beautifully, of course, by Michael Lewis.
35:31
Mike Rouse, "Can you do American Greed in Ernie Johnson's voice or your mother or father's voice?" [laughs] American Greed from our Atlanta studios. Jesus. Uh- Ernie one's still the winner. That's the winner.
35:44
What's that? The Ernie one's the ba- Ernie... That's still your best. The Earnest Johnson. The Earnest Johnson. [laughs] Ever just break into a recap of a game with that. Uh, Roger Jones, "Yes, you are correct.
35:54
Uh, Peter Ford, his father was a famous DJ in New York." I thought so. Oh, Spence, "Stacey Keach is Mike Hammer. Great old CBS show." Oh, okay. There you go. That's right. It was Mike Hammer.
36:04
And then, uh, Auburnist, "Would be curious about how these horse racing syndicates are formed. Thanks." Yeah. That's a good question. I want, I want in. Is that what you mean? I, I want in too Yeah.
36:14
[laughs] Yeah, no, I mean, uh, there, there's some good explanations there, some great tweets there finding out... 'Cause I'm learning stuff. I'm not really...
36:21
You know, I know about horses now, so to hear how this is, there's this inside thing overcoming a 20% edge, um, a- and them getting this information, now the tracks are involved. I mean, let me be blunt.
36:32
This has to be on the gray line of, uh, illegal, nefarious. [laughs] I mean, this has to be on that line. Of course. Jesus. Well, it's good to know that our buddy Chris Felice is part of this.
36:44
[laughs] Don't s- don't say it that way. Oh, sorry. [laughs] Maybe we could have phrased that differently. Yeah, I'm just kidding. Uh, Bentley Roberts, "Absolute gold from Gil for, uh, all of us American Greed fans.
36:57
Degens," he calls them. That was great. He goes, "Laughed out loud as I am too familiar with the true crime loving girlfriend scenario. You've never had a...
37:03
" [laughs] This is great, his last line, "You've never had a real nightmare until you've woken up to the ID channel playing at 3:30." [laughs] Oh, man. [laughs] Jesus. That's great. I have been there. Bentley Roberts.
37:15
Oh, man. That's awesome. That's so great. You're- now that I'm seeing Stacy Keach, you just need... It, it, it needs to be deeper. It- it's, it's, it's lower. Oh, he's...
37:24
Yeah, but I mean, he's got 30 years on me, so I gotta get there. Sure. Sorry. You know, guys, we got... Just before- Counting down? Okay, 30, got it. [laughs] So, uh, I guess it's a big fight this weekend here.
37:34
I, I- Yes. We had Al Bernstein on earlier. Yeah, you had Al Bernstein on. Are you going to the fight? No. Do you like going to fights? No, 'cause I'm, I'm, I'm actually going out of town.
37:40
I'm going, I'm going to a graduation. Um- Would you go if you had a ticket? I, I, uh, probably not, no. No, I, I- Are you, are you done betting? I'm, I'm a big boxing... Listen, the fight last weekend wa- was great.
37:50
I watched it. It was cr- I, I was so excited and, and, and, and watching this fight, I, I- He got nailed for PEDs, by the way, for PEDS. Yeah, I know he did. Yeah. I know he did. Yeah. A- and, you know, um, there...
37:59
It just seems like... A- and I, I, I laugh at myself. When Floyd retired, it was probably over for me, going to fights and stuff. Now, why would I even go to his fights? 'Cause they were so boring, a lot of them.
38:11
He, he- Defensive shoulder roll. But it was just a different time for boxing. He- And then of course- Yeah... you know, back when I w- we were growing up, and Gil, you remember the great times in the '80s when- Yes...
38:20
uh, Ha- Hagler, L- you know, Leonard, um, Duran, and you know, that, that was- Hagler-Hearns. Hearns. Hagler-Leonard, Leonard-Hearns. Yeah. Leonard-Hearn one, Leonard-Hearns one, the greatest fight of all time. Yes.
38:30
No, but you're right. One of them. Floyd, Floyd was a great businessman. Just a businessman. His, his matches- He had me always thinking something, like, yeah... his, his bouts were so boring. Yeah. So boring.
38:39
'Cause he's a great defender, right? Yes. So I'm not- Like, that was, that was my boxing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And he's...
38:44
I got to learn about defending and scoring points and stuff like that, and not sweet '80s knockouts by heavyweights.
38:51
Well, it's why, like, those of us who saw those fighters in the '80s just s- I, I'll just speak for myself, those guys would have d- I believe would have destroyed him. That's what we, we think. Oh, yeah.
39:02
That's what we think. He never would have even allowed them to fight him. [laughs] That's like- He, he never would have taken a- He would, he would have waited for Sugar Ray to get to 38 years old.
39:10
Like he waited for Ma- Manny or whatever. Yeah, right. Yeah, Manny, he would- Yeah. Took, took forever for that fight to get together. He would...
39:15
Like with Canelo, he would have fought Hearns when Hearns was 21 or something, right? He fought Canelo ear- early in Canelo's career. Yeah. Yeah.
39:22
Um, not that I think Canelo would have won anyway, but, um, yeah, a- and, and that's- But that's what he did. He... Canelo early, Pacquiao late. That was his thing.
39:29
But last night I went to, uh, all these guys from, uh, uh, from the boxing game. 'Cause I, I was a, I grew up a bo- big boxing fan.
39:36
Uh, these guys were in town, Steve Pratt, uh, Mark Abrams, and I, I met another guy that worked for Al Haymon, which I thought was... A- and he came to dinner.
39:44
There was a, there was a bunch of us who went to the Italian American Club last night. These guys all come from out of town. They're, you know, excited to go to the Italian American Club.
39:51
Uh, Kenneth Bo- Borre, he, he works for Al Haymon. So went to dinner last night at the Italian American Club. Great meal. Good to, good to see these guys, and hear their...
39:59
They're, they're about my age, and, uh, to hear them all talk about the, the boxing game now. They're excited for it now 'cause they make money with it now, of course.
40:07
They're involved with promotions and the, and, and the media. You know, when I was a kid, Al Haymon used to promote concerts in DC. Last night I found out that. I said, "What?" Yeah.
40:15
He said Al Haymon is a multi-multi-millionaire from concerts. No, when I w- when I was a kid, I used to listen to R&B radio stations. It was like an Al Haymon production, and then he became this massive boxing guy. Yeah.
40:24
I don't know how he made that transition. I never knew till last night- Oh, yeah... how big of a musical infl- how he... I mean, he had Michael Jackson- Michael... on the road. He had- Oh, yeah...
40:31
so he's a multi-multi-millionaire. I think he's from Cleveland. And, um, yeah, yeah, he made all this money in, in the industry. I didn't know it till last night.
40:39
So hearing that, I love, you know, boxing historian kind of stuff and, uh, things like that. So it, it was really cool. Nice dinner, and, uh, a- again, one of the most reasonable places in town.
40:49
I was just telling him, I said, "You know, I can't... You, you..." Like, we could have went to a different restaurant, one of the ones I like. Um, uh, but this was the one that really, it's old school mom and pop.
40:59
We all went. Yeah. I, I know I always put, put them on a map, but- Here, here's what I wanna know about... Yeah, you should just have a cut there, Al. Really, I should get a cut of the profits here. I, I...
41:06
Let me, let me... Um, are you, though, have you gotten to the point with boxing? 'Cause I, I, I mean, we've all... I know, I shouldn't say we've all been there, but I have certainly. I'll, I'll make fun of myself.
41:15
I have vowed to never bet boxing again, not on one occasion, Bill- I fully understand... but on, but on multiple occasions. Yeah. And one of them was a Triple G-Canelo fight where I- I was there...
41:25
I was, I was there, too. Yeah. I was convinced Triple G won, and I think that was the draw, the one that I went to.
41:32
And I was like, "I'm not doing this ever again," and if, and I do it a- again, someone should slap me in the neck. The draw. You know, um- What'd you say? The draw.
41:39
No, I think it was, I think it was- Oh, yeah, the draw... that was the first one, I believe. But, but anyway- Was it the first one? I think it was.
41:42
Oh, then I went to the one where they gave it to Canelo, whatever it was. Yeah. I went to the... I didn't go to the first one. You know, um, it, it, it was upsetting going to those fights.
41:50
And people, again, people took the side of Canelo and said, "No, no, no." You know what it is, like I always say in sports, I bet on Canelo, you bet on Triple G. We watch it from our side, and that's it.
42:00
So we don't even realize, we, "Oh, yeah, yeah, we, we should have won." Like they, they, each one of us. Yeah, but it, but it, that, there's that, right? Right. There's that. Right.
42:08
I mean, the biggest example of that was, going back to 1987, was Leonard-Hagler, right? Right. Where Le- where Sugar Ray essentially stole rounds at the end. Yes. And- With those fast punches... with those- Oh my God...
42:19
with those flurries. Yes. Never really hurt Hagler, but scored. Right, right. Uh, and I watched it closed circuit at the Boston Garden. Wow, closed circuit.
42:27
Where Hagler was from Brockton, Mass, so it was a completely- pro-Hagler fight Oh my God, everyone there They thought, they thought he was killing Ray Screaming.
42:36
Sure And I got my buddies at the Kap Center saying, "Oh no, Ray killed him." Wow. Right? See what I mean? So that's it. That's it. That's all it is. What were you doing up there in Boston? I was at school. Oh, okay.
42:44
Yeah. Um, by the way, I told my school, "Don't send me anything ever again- Oh, you guys-... because of what's going on there." Right, right, right. So, so I, uh, I said, um, but, but it's beyond that, right?
42:52
In boxing, your handicap ought to... Is this true or false? That your handicap, your primary handicap ought not to be breaking down the fighters,
43:02
but rather the business interest of which fighter ought to advance with a win. That's perfect. Yes. That's perfect. Yeah. That's what Teddy always says, Teddy Atlas. Yeah.
43:11
Like, the, the, the- Well, if Teddy says it, then it's gotta be true... in- incompetence, corruption.
43:15
Yes There, there's so- the, the, you know, the judges we have had, um- If DAZN has a 10-fight contract with you- That's Canelo... kind of leaps to mind. Right? I mean, yeah. Yes, yes, exactly. I mean, no, I mean- Yeah...
43:25
um, you're, you're exactly right. It's, and you said something at the beginning of this that I'm gonna stick with. I really can't bet on boxing. I just can't bet on boxing now. I, that's what I'm saying.
43:33
Yeah, it's- It, it, it's just, you, you know, you look at so many things over the years how bad the judging is.
43:38
But I remember, like, off the top of my head, Timothy Bradley, he, they said he beat Canel- Ca- uh, what's his, um, Pacquiao. Like, that was terrible.
43:46
There was so many different things that I've seen, and you shake your head and you say, "Wow, I'm laying 5 to 1 on this fight?" [laughs] Yeah. So there's no way. You can't do it. I agree with you, Gil.
43:53
Uh, Bill, great to see you. It's always better when you're around. Great to see you guys. Thank you, guys. Always better when you're here in person. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. Uh, we appreciate. Great to see you.
43:59
Sorry about, again, about your friend. That's so nice of you to start on it and end on that note. Yeah. Beautiful. My condolences. Beautiful. All of our condolences. Um, Bill will be back next Thursday.
44:08
Tomorrow- Perfect... on the show, Preston Johnson and Pablo Torre, Chris Felica, Drew Dinsick from Churchill Downs. We've done all we can do. If you're on radio, GoJo and Golick are next. Pictures, Best Bet is next.
44:20
Enjoy, from Visa, the sports betting network.
A Numbers Game
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