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Dec 18, 2024
Best of A Numbers Game | December 18, 2024
Best of A Numbers Game | December 18, 2024
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0:00
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0:26
The numbers told the story. They always do. He's one of those idiots who believe in analytics. This is a Numbers Game with Gil Alexander on VSiN. Good Wednesday morning to you.
0:35
This is Numbers Game at VSiN, the sports betting network, vsin.com, Game Plus, iHeartRadio, YouTube TV. However you're taking this in, we appreciate it. It's Gil Alexander.
0:45
It is Clay Bidlan, is how I think you pronounce that. It's Kelly Bidlan, everybody, producer number nine. So much more than a producer. Uh, off, uh, fresh off his, uh, appearance at The Showdown yesterday. Yeah.
0:57
Sugar Hill Furious Five, The Showdown. You, uh, won a bet on that- The Showdown... as well. Yeah, nice little bet. Yeah, absolutely. Did you, did you get on TV? I saw a screenshot. Did you get on TV?
1:06
Uh, apparent- Matt and I were in the background, uh, yes, at some point. I, uh, a hole 13, I w- I was, like, one person away from being selected for this putting contest. Oh, man.
1:16
Oh, Gil, it was- That would have been awesome. This was, we're not, we're not in Snake's story territory. This would've been better because I was, I was, I was right up there.
1:24
It was the be- it was the best, uh, viewpoint we had of any hole. We were right there on the green. The guys, like, hit it off the green, so they're all right in front of us.
1:31
And, uh, I was holding, like, I had two beers in my jacket, and holding Matt's beer. No, no.
1:38
So I was, like, really hoping I was gonna be selected so I could be like, "Hey Brooks, I need you to hold this, this, this, this." [laughs] If I was there, I'd have been like, "For the show, Kelly. For the show."
1:46
It was a great time, though. Beautiful course, awesome event, good times. Are you the guy, like, if you go to Absinthe or some more of those shows, like, you're the guy who ends up dancing on stage?
1:54
I, I mean, I try not to be, but, uh, sometimes it happens. I'd like to go to Absinthe with you, and I'd like you to be the guy selected. [laughs] Just wanna point that out.
2:01
Uh, you made a good choice yesterday because the, uh, Emirates NBA Cup Final was a, uh, was a sh- sham, what was it? Travesty and mockery, is the- I'll take it. You were on the Bucks. I had the Bucks futures, yep.
2:12
Oh, okay. Yeah, five to one on the Bucks. You had the Bucks future? Yeah. Oh, right. But were you on OKC yesterday? No, no, I didn't bet the NBA, no. Okay. Drew was on OKC. I had, I had a Giannis points over.
2:20
I was, uh, debating points and rebounds over or points over. Love when that mistake, uh, gets made, 'cause he didn't get to over his points, but points and rebounds was easy.
2:27
For those who missed it, Bucks beat the Thunder 97 to 81, so every player on the Bucks roster gets themselves $500,000 for winning the, uh, the in-season Emirates NBA Cup. Bucks were the runners-up last year.
2:40
They win it this year. Um, the Oklahoma City Thunder end up with 81 points. It took them until 17.6 seconds left in the game to get to 80. They hit a three-pointer to get from 78 to 81.
2:55
Oklahoma City, prior to this point this season, had never scored less than 99 points in any game, and, um, 80 was the fewest points scored by any team in the NBA in any game this season. So they just barely got by that.
3:14
So Milwaukee just destroys them. Yeah. Um, and good for the Bucks. And- Yeah, I c- I caught a, caught a fair amount of the second half.
3:20
We were back, we were back here, watched, uh, the second half here, grabbed, uh, some dinner at Barry's, uh, which was delicious as always. But, um- Nice... the, I, I, you know what I pulled Gil, though?
3:29
When I was checking scores out there, and I'm like, I, I'm like, "What's going on in this game?" And it's like, okay, let me look at the three-pointers. Oh, that's what's going on in this game. Mm-hmm.
3:36
'Cause it was- That's exactly what's going on... yeah, OKC struggling massively from downtown. Uh, and then, uh, Giannis' reaction was to go hug his brother, basically saying, "There's your 500K, buddy. Enjoy."
3:47
What, what I wanna know is, uh, any casino managers in this town, how many, uh, bets of $515,000 were put on, uh, red or black last night? Uh, uh, that's what I wanna know, 'cause yeah, $515,000 is cool, Gil.
3:59
You know what's a lot cooler? [laughs] A million dollars. [laughs] Stupid. Uh, by the way, on the show, we have a spectacular show today. May I call it spectacular? Yeah, we do. Um, Jake Bensequin joins us.
4:12
He is one of the, uh, folks with a survivor entry left. Uh, he is, his entry is the one that I, I mentioned that I was invested in one. His is the entry that I have the small investment in. Oh, nice. Okay. Yeah.
4:24
So, uh, Jake from Profit X, one of the, uh, co-founders of Profit X, one of the, uh, 50 remaining survivor entries.
4:29
We will get a, uh, heat check on what he's thinking about picking this week, and more importantly, beyond this week, what's he thinking about for Christmas?
4:37
'Cause Christmas is, again, moving day at the Masters, moving day at Circuit Survivor, where there is not a comfortable pick among the six. Let's put it that way. So we'll, we'll get a, uh, heat check on Jake.
4:48
And by the way, n- I nor anybody else who's invested in his entry have anything to do with the picks. Nothing at all. It's a don't ask, don't tell policy. Good.
4:59
Because it, because we're all out, and he's gotten himself this far, so there you go. Yeah, I, I mean, look, I think sometimes it's nice to, to be able to ask for advice if you want it. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?
5:08
But otherwise, cooks stay out of the kitchen. Even if he asked, I wouldn't give it. Okay. Because who am I? Yeah. Right? It really is amazing. You know? Yeah.
5:15
I, I've got, I got one buddy who's asked me for fantasy advice probably four times this year. I could not have given him worse answers every single time. [laughs] Yeah. Every s- including Brock Purdy for this last week.
5:25
He, along with all the others who are still in Survivor, have done very well on their own. Yep. They don't need anyb- they don't need any outside advice at this point. Uh, obviously the $14.266 million
5:35
Circuit Survivor contest. Uh, we will also have, uh, we'll also have a visit here from Gina Fiore as well later on in the show.
5:42
For those unfamiliar with her, she might have, I'll say wa- I'll be conservative, one of the great stories in... this industry. Mm-hmm. Uh, and not just sports betting, but just gambling in general.
5:54
I would say Jeff Ma probably has the, the coolest story, MIT Blackjack Team. Yeah, yeah. [laughs] That's kinda tough to beat. That's tough to beat.
6:00
[laughs] But, but Gina's is, is right up there, and, uh, we'll talk to Gina. She's, uh, doing a whole bunch of stuff including MasterClass. She has a calendar, a sports betting calendar, let me be specific about that.
6:11
Should prob- should probably clarify. Um, she has a documentary about her. There's all kind, uh, all kinds of stuff. She w- let's put it this way: it was not hard to research everything that she's into these days.
6:22
Uh, so we'll do that. Uh, Jason Weingart will join us, JVT, with, uh, some football thoughts on college football obviously today. Uh, his UNLV Rebels are in action. I can call them his, right? He's a big fan of UNLV.
6:35
Mm-hmm. So I'm sure he has a thought on the UNLV-Cal game. If not, the Boca Raton Bowl that precedes that today, and other bowl picks, uh, not to mention what he has in the NFL. The Del Boca Vista Bowl is today, Kevin.
6:45
Let's go Boca Bowl, yeah. In the afternoon. Oh, very exciting about that. Speaking of, uh, college football bowls, uh, hope you hit on Memphis yesterday.
6:52
Hope you got the, uh, four and a half, and were able to get it done with the Memphis Tigers against West Virginia last night in a game that, uh, soared over the 60, 42 to 37.
7:04
Memphis gets it done in a game that I th- I thought Memphis would win this a lot more comfortably, but they couldn't get West Virginia off the field either.
7:11
And this came down to, again, we talk about, you know, the ridiculous coaching decisions in the National Football League. Well, Memphis ends up, up five late in this game.
7:21
They're doing anything they want on offense, right? They end up with a fourth and three in plus territory.
7:28
Uh, it would've been a f- it w- they had a choice between going for the fourth and three, this is with just under a minute left, West Virginia has no timeouts left, going for the fourth and three, or attempting a 50-yard field goal.
7:39
I guess you could pooch, pooch punt it there too if you wanted to. Right.
7:42
They've been doing anything they wanted all day, including, by the way, Seth Henigan, the, uh, the quarterback, ha- with a keeper, you know, he was doing anything he wanted. Goes, "Oh, of course," guess what they choose?
7:51
They're gonna kick a field goal. And I'm like, "Oh, my God. Can you stop with the field goal?" [laughs] So of course it misses. Oh, man.
7:58
By the way, even if you make the field goal, y- they can still tie you and, and go to overtime. Just, they, they're up five with this out? They're up five. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, what are you doing?
8:06
And he misses it, and- And when you get a chance to make a one possession game- Oh... a one possession game killer, you take it every time. As I love to say. [laughs] As I love to say.
8:13
And the pooch punt, why isn't it done more often? I don't know. So anyway, West Virginia gets the ball back with, like, 50-plus seconds left in the game. I think it's 56. Don't hold me to the exact seconds.
8:22
And so of course I'm like, "If I lose this game," Yeah... right? They were up 17 at o- they were up 17 to nothing, uh, Memphis was.
8:30
So, um, West Virginia with no timeouts matriculates the ball down the field to I wanna say about the 35-yard line. Well, they, they don't have a timeout.
8:38
The, the quarterback for West Virginia slides too early before the sticks, so the clock keeps moving. So then it becomes a little harried situation for West Virginia, and he throws a, a ball that gets picked.
8:48
Ball game, right? 'Cause, because he got rushed. I'm like, "Oh, thank God I'm lucky." So all you have to do is go down, right? Mm. This, now this, the clock is ticking. We're almost down to 10 seconds.
8:58
All you have to do is go down. So this, this D-back for Memphis doesn't go down. He's like, "Eh, let me just sort of lollygag here, see what happens." Go down.
9:08
[laughs] Dude on West Virginia comes behind him, pokes the ball out. West Virginia recovers 10 seconds left, right around the thir- Oh, my gosh... the 30-plus yard line. Going crazy.
9:19
Except for one little detail, that on review is that right before he got the ball poked out, this is after like f- you know, four seconds of running for no reason, he did barely start a slide.
9:31
Like, it finally occurred to him to start a slide. Oh. So on review, totally lucky, Memphis maintains possession. There is your ballgame. Wow. Yeah. What time did this game start?
9:43
Oh, it was, it ended well after midnight- [laughs]... midnight East Coast time. That's right. [laughs] It started, it's a good question. It started at 6:00 PM Pacific. Okay. All right.
9:51
'Cause yeah, when I got back home it was still on. I w- I was shocked. Yeah, 6:00 PM Pacific, which again, w- what, what are we doing with that? Uh, your solitary, your, uh, your sole, you know, standalone bowl game.
10:01
By the way, let me just say this, the last point of this game.
10:03
The color commentator, whose name I not only didn't know but didn't want to know, he goes, this is the, uh, this is the, uh, the Memphis player that picked off that ball and decided to just sort of run haphazardly- Yeah...
10:15
down the field. Uh, the color commentator goes, and I quote, "Elijah Herring giving himself up saves the day for the Memphis Tigers." No, he shouldn't have been running in the first place.
10:26
[laughs] He did not save the day. He saved it from himself. Anyway, hope you got the win. We're g- we're gonna have to play the, uh, the bowl sponsor game.
10:33
I was just cracking up che- ch- uh, checking this one out, the Scooter's Coffee First Coast Bowl? It is the Scooter's Coffee First Bowl. Scooter's Coffee, man. That's the only one I drink. I don't know about you.
10:42
[laughs] Never seen it before in my life. What, like [laughs] what is this, this came out... We'll, maybe we'll play that tomorrow. Oh, man. That game every year is fun. Uh, do you- Scooter's Coffee...
10:49
j- just don't do a disgusting mayo thing this year. I know you- Do you, does that mean Duke's Mayo? Please don't do that. The first time that came on the scene for a bowl sponsor- Oh... I'd never heard of Duke's Mayo.
10:58
Duke's Mayo. Duke's Mayo apparently is a big thing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think there is a, uh, s- a select area of the country where Duke's is pretty big.
11:04
And before we get to JVT, the, the other big thing of course that happened yesterday right after we got off air, 'cause that's when everything happens news-wise, is the Atlanta Falcons, Raheem Morris says, "We are going with Michael Penix the rest of the way."
11:16
That's it for Kirk Cousins. Well, we had a few, me and you had to try to scramble and get off our Browns bets, which- We, which I did... you did, I didn't. Immediately got off it.
11:24
Yeah, so I'm gonna take the j- DTR, you gotta be kidding me... I'm gonna take the juice hit on that. Um, but that's, I, I'd much rather take the juice hit than live through that DTR starting.
11:33
I mean, I might end up doing it. Like, did you have to buy, you bought a half point? Was it at that point? Yeah. Yeah. I might end up doing that too. Yep. I, l- I will end up doing that if I have to.
11:41
I am not going [laughs] not going to battle with DTR and seven points. Right move for the Falcons if you're trying to make the playoffs here?
11:48
I, I think it's real- I'm, I'ma go with yes, Gil, because it must be so bad with Cousins that they had to do this. JVT's on the other side.
11:57
Right before we get to JVT I will give you the, uh, the breakdown of Kirk Cousins' stats. First nine games when the Falcons were six and three- That's bonkers...
12:05
versus after that Um, quite the precipitous drop off, to say the least. Whether it's the right choice or not, if you're trying to get to the postseason, I don't know. JBT on the other side.
12:13
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12:31
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12:39
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12:48
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12:57
Uh, this is from, let's see, Brian M., "Coach Silverfield was in fact covered in iced coffee yesterday." There you go. See? There you go. Makes sense. And he actually, he actually sent us a video.
13:09
[laughs] I could think it was iced. [laughs] Um, by the way- Yeah... a lot of people reacting to Mike Sando's, uh, appearance on the show yesterday. He is one of the A- AP NFL awards betters. Mm-hmm.
13:20
Uh, voters, pardon me. Voters, yep. And, uh, people were not happy with his, uh- What part? The, all Josh Allen people are like, "You gotta be kidding me." Oh.
13:30
Well, there's one thing, like, I mean, this is- That's why we had him on... I mean, this is the point That was the point. This is where we discuss betting odds, right?
13:35
Like, there is, yes, Josh Allen should be favored right now in my opinion, but there is still, there's just still a window, a possibility that he doesn't get home with the award. There are still three weeks left.
13:46
You know who was also not happy with it? Cleve T.A. was not happy with it. Oh? And he doesn't even have a bet on it, he said.
13:51
Uh, Joe Abraham, "The pennant lineup behind Matty Cox was top flight apartment decor, USF, Florida Atlantic, Hawaii, Duke, Indiana, and can't tell the other one." The other one was Mississippi Valley State. Sure.
14:01
And, and the last name Nash, and I had no idea about this, "Good to see Matty Cox back from his short paternity leave. Looking forward to more weekly segments with the Weave this college basketball season."
14:11
Matty Cox is a brand-new father. [laughs] He had a, he had a little girl six days ago. I, I misheard that. I was back in the control room during the break. I thought you said, uh, s- what, six or 16 hours ago.
14:23
Yeah, that's what I thought.
14:23
I, I felt really bad 'cause I started bugging the three-man Weave guys of, uh, they didn't return my first text yesterday, so I was gonna go, "Matt, where are, you gonna come to the spot tomorrow or not?"
14:31
Well, 'cause, 'cause the way he said it off air, he goes, "Yeah, uh, she was born on, she was born at, uh, she was born 12/12." And I was like, "12/12 last night?" [laughs] "Or, or yesterday afternoon?"
14:41
He goes, "No, no, no, 12/12 the date." I'm like, "Oh, okay. I was gonna say." Oh, congrats, Matt. That's awesome. And then Rick Gollier, "Hey, guys, why did you say not to call it Frisco?
14:49
My son was super pumped to visit the Golden Gate Bridge for Christmas, but now he feels like he isn't welcome [laughs] in San Fran anymore." [laughs] Don't say Frisco, don't say San Fran. Oh.
14:59
Uh, don't do any of that when you go to, uh, San Francisco. Uh- And go to Frisco, Texas. We l- That's right... we learned about that yesterday. National video game museum's there. Really? Yeah, yeah. Look it up.
15:08
In Frisco, Texas. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, he is one of the people, one of the remaining people who have himself a circus survivor entry that is alive. There are 50 entries left.
15:18
He is the co-founder of Prophet X. He is Jake Bensiquin joining us courtesy of the, of the, uh, Progressive guest line. Jake, what's happening? Hey, guys. [laughs] Happy to be back here.
15:29
And Jake, let me just ask you what I wa- what I asked you off air first, before we get into anything, about your pick this week, about Christmas, how you're playing that, monetization, all of it.
15:38
How d- can you even allow yourself, four, there's three weeks left in the NFL season, but obviously four with the Christmas quirk and survivor, can you even allow yourself to get, to get excited yet with Christmas looming?
15:54
I think all the fun's been sucked out of it at this point. [laughs] It's been, uh, it's been more stressful than, uh, enjoyable of late. I think post-Thanksgiving a flip really switched.
16:03
Yeah, the, uh, the a- the attitude when Jake first came on- Oh... I was so impressed with. Yes. The wa- the wavering of the tone you can hear now. I understand, Jake. It's a lot, a lot.
16:12
Well, because part of it, Jake, remember last time you were on, and by the way, let me just say what I said earlier on the show, I have, just full disclosure, I have a very, very, very small portion of, uh, of Jake's, uh, survivor entry.
16:24
Um, but again, don't ask, don't tell. None of us who are invested give any advice. It's all Jake picking all of them. Uh, I asked you last time, did you have any sweats?
16:34
And you wanted a, you wanted a mulligan on that because you answered that you hadn't, but there was one, and since I asked you, you had nothing but sweats, right? Pretty much. Yeah, pretty much.
16:45
Uh, I had answered that, uh, previously and cracked. I appreciate the mulligan.
16:49
Uh, I was on Jacksonville earlier this year, uh, when they played Joe Flacco and the Colts, and if anyone remembers or I'm not sure too many people were watching the fourth quarter of that game early on, but Flacco scored 14 points in the fourth quarter and they wouldn't go away, and Jacksonville had to win it on a 55, 60-yarder from Cam Little, whose name I will never forget now.
17:09
Definitely. [laughs] Forever. Um, yeah, no, since, since I said that and since I came on, I've had to deal with Kansas City, uh, and Cincinnati. Uh, Cincinnati last Monday night or two Monday nights ago.
17:20
So, uh, it's been, as I said, and as, you know, Kelly's picking up over here, the confidence hasn't wavered, but the stress of the situation, uh, has definitely creeped into the fun side a little bit.
17:31
Yeah, Kansas City, just to clear it, Kansas City was the day after Thanksgiving where the Raiders just snapped the ball for, the, first of all, they called a timeout too early, then they snapped the ball and fumbled, and Kansas City miraculously won th- miraculously won that game.
17:43
And then I would argue that the Cincinnati game against Dallas might be the quickest change of emotions in survivor history.
17:53
A punt is blocked, and so for, I don't know, what was it, 2.3 seconds, just gonna throw that out there, you're like, "It's over."
18:01
And then Dallas did the Leon Lett thing and touched the football and Cincinnati got it back. Even Joe Buck didn't get that Cincinnati maintained possession at that point. So that was unbelievable. Just incredible.
18:12
Um- Yeah, I had, I had never seen that before. Uh, I watch a lot of football, never had seen that one before. Just saw the officials pointing the other way, uh, and Cincinnati ball. But, um, that one was, I would...
18:22
That's like a, that's like a scientific study, right? If I could actually process everything in real time as it was happening, I don't think I did.
18:28
I think I just saw Cincinnati ball, which was better than the Chiefs game for sure, which was a long, drawn-out- Ooh... I'm going to lose here. Brutal. Okay.
18:37
This week, week 16, the week before Christmas, what are you thinking? It's hard to not take the so and, so and so called, uh, free square with Green Bay and advance to Christmas.
18:50
Um, I obviously know there's no guarantees out here, but, uh, do I wanna be on Penix? Probably not. Uh, I don't know if it can get much worse than Kirk Cousins, but, uh, rookie QB, Giants seem to be a total disaster.
19:04
But it's hard at this point. I know that sometimes the math and the EV of the selections can go against this, but
19:13
Christmas is, you know, the, the biggest swing of the year, and always has been, and everyone's preparing for it since before the season started, right?
19:19
So having a 13 and a half point, I think even they're at 14 and a half, I saw last night on Circa, uh, having that as an option, um, and Green Bay only could really be utilized in week 18, and week 18, who the hell knows what's going on.
19:32
So it's, uh, it's tough to pass that up, but, um, for me it's really that or Atlanta. I don't have Cincinnati, I don't have Buffalo. Okay. I like that. Um, in my best Tony Romo voice, "Just don't say free square, Jake."
19:45
[laughs] Yeah. Of course. Just don't say that. Uh, it's, uh- Yeah... it's okay. I've been using it pretty freely out here- Yeah. No, I know... uh, for others and, and, and for myself. But, um- Mm-hmm...
19:54
if, you know, if, if they lose, they lose. I, I would be, uh, okay going down with a 14 and a half point favorite. Okay.
20:00
Far more interesting, and interesting I say in quotes, 'cause from your perspective it's probably, oh, God, interesting would not be the word you would use, is the three game Christmas quirk in this contest.
20:14
None of the six is a comfortable play. What are you thinking right now? Obviously, your mind can change, but what are you thinking right now? Yeah, so this, this contest has gotten incredibly interesting the last week.
20:28
I mean, it's, it's already been, you know, obviously an extremely well run and popular contest over the last few years. But you have, as I mentioned, Atlanta going with Michael Penix yesterday and benching Kirk Cousins.
20:39
So the team with arguably the most future value outside of like a Philly or something, uh, just changed their starting quarterback after not being able to score a touchdown in Vegas.
20:49
Uh, so they are home versus the Giants this week, and then home versus Carolina, uh, in week 18. So that's a huge wrinkle.
20:57
Then we get to Christmas, and Christmas now has both starting quarterbacks for the Steelers, or excuse me, for the Chiefs and for the Seahawks going down. So you got Geno and Ro- or Geno and Ross.
21:09
Geno and, uh, Mahomes now looking gimpy. Mahomes did practice fully yesterday, which I think was a huge surprise to everyone. But, uh, I'm left with Pittsburgh and Chicago who are playing those two quarterbacks.
21:20
So the decision for me, I don't think it'll come down to a QB decision.
21:24
It looks like both of those guys are gonna be good to go on Christmas after, you know, Sunday night, Monday morning, thinking neither might be, uh, especially with the way Geno's looked and with the way Mahomes has looked.
21:35
I mean, I can't believe he practiced yesterday. But, um, yeah, it's gon- Someone asked me last night, "Do you trust, you know, the Steelers or the Bears more?"
21:42
And I basically said, "How could you possibly trust the Bears more?" Yeah. Uh, so it's, um, it's tough. It's, it's looking like either of those selections are gonna be slight dogs with some lines finally out.
21:52
But, um, yeah, I mean, either, either way, it's going to be a massive, massive swing in the contest. You're gonna result with the least half the people gone.
22:00
Chiefs, Steelers, Ravens, Texans, Seahawks, Bears, those are the three games, uh, Christmas Day and the day after Christmas. Real quick, last two questions. One, have you begun monetization?
22:10
Uh, I've sold, uh, 10% of the entry, um, a little bit to yourself, Gil, over here, and a little bit to some other friends. So I have started monetizing it.
22:19
Um, I think Christmas, Christmas, again, assuming we get through this week, creates a great monetization opportunity as well.
22:25
Uh, so have started with equity chunks being sold off, but haven't actually started necessarily, you know, hedging on the other side. Yeah. The hedging was what I was referring to. Uh, okay.
22:33
And then lastly, l- l- you told us last time you finally told your parents. Yeah. Are they dancing around? Are they having discussions with you about this? What are, what are they doing?
22:44
Just annoying me for the pick, um, which is okay. [laughs] Uh, it's, it's, it's understood at this point.
22:49
But, um, yeah, it's become a little bit bigger than me in terms of I've got a lot of people, you know, understanding the gravity of the situation- Mm-hmm... which is not making it any more fun. It makes it way worse.
22:59
I liked it when I was just sweating in silence. All right. Jake, good luck. Let's go. [upbeat music] A numbers game on VSiN, the sports betting network.
23:11
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23:25
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23:35
Visit vsin.com/jansanity and let the Jansanity begin. Let's go, Alexander. We get tweets at Beating The Book, always appreciated. This is from Ice Cold Gambler, uh, "Let's get Spohrer on ASAP. We need baseball talk.
23:48
I'll be fading the Angels and would like to hear his thoughts. White Sox 49 and a half wins." Oh, my God. "I think Tennessee could win 50 games in MLB. If you can't win 50 games, you should be..." dot, dot, dot, he says.
23:59
I think he's saying relegated there. Uh, and then, uh, Torch D, "VSIN's own Adam Shine voting for Sam Darnold for Comeback Player of the Year."
24:08
So, uh, Adam Shine, who we hope to have on the show- Uh, Kelly will grab Adam Shine, who of course is a VSiN host here weekdays.
24:15
We'll get him on and get all of his awards thoughts as well, in addition to those we've got from Mike Sando and from Aaron Schatz.
24:22
Uh, it is my pleasure to have, uh, this lady on for the first time ever on this show, uh, kind enough to come in studio. And as I was saying earlier, her story is probably about as good as anybody's in this industry.
24:34
I always say Jeff Ma being part of the MIT blackjack team is probably the coolest story of them all, but, uh, Gina Fiore's is right up there.
24:41
She was a, uh, dealer in a casino, and, uh, one day got the inspiration to go to the other side, if you will. Count cards, that led to a, uh, a life of looking at hole carding and had a team of, of, uh, players with her.
24:57
She ended up winning, uh, that team did, over $15 million over time, uh, with all kinds of other advantage play as well, and she's got a whole bunch going on right now, including a master class. We'll get to that.
25:09
She's got a calendar. Kind enough to join us in studio. By the way, she works for Unabated as well. It's Gina Fiore. How you doing? Hey, good. Yeah. Thanks for coming in. Yeah, for sure. How are you?
25:17
I, I'm doing very well. Did I accurately describe? You did. You did. How did you... Well, let's just start there for a sec- Yeah... before we get into all this stuff. What was the, sort of what was the epiphany for you?
25:28
You're, you're a young lady. You're, you're- Yeah... just an employee in a casino, and one day you decided, "Yeah, there's a better way here." It, I had an epiphany. I had a plot point in my life.
25:39
Uh, there was a dealer, I was dealing on the strip, and there was a dealer who quit his job, and I asked him, you know, "What are you gonna do? Did you get another job?" And he said, "I'm going..."
25:50
Or he said exactly, "I'm going to play poker in Laughlin and count cards." That was exactly what he said. And at that moment I was like, count...
25:58
'Cause I had heard of counting cards, I was like, "You can do this for a living? This is a thing that you can do?" And I did not like dealing blackjack. Were you...
26:05
Oh, 'cause you were searching for a career at that point, a long-term? I wasn't. I wasn't.
26:09
When I was, uh, in high school, my mom was a dealer at The Horseshoe, and she saw people getting kicked out for card counting, and she told me that she thought I'd be good at it, and I'm in high school, because I was okay at math.
26:21
And so I remembered this thing she said, and then I hear this guy saying he's going to quit to count cards for a living, and I don't know what happened in my brain, but that was it. I was just obsessed.
26:30
So I went downtown, got some books, and taught myself. Yeah. And, and studied it. I studied it obsessively. I was obsessed. Really? Yeah.
26:38
And at what point then, how long did you do that before you discovered hole carding? God, I was counting cards- And explain to folks, by the way- Yeah... what, what hole carding is, for those who might not know.
26:47
So hole carding is, I mean, the dealer's dealing, right? And you, you shouldn't see their bottom card if, if they're doing their procedure correctly.
26:54
And hole carding is just, they're not doing their procedure correctly, or the machine is just, uh, at, uh, stationed in a way that when they bring the cards out, you can just see the whole card.
27:06
And it's not illegal, it's just something that is there for everyone to see, and once you know what to look for, you're just like, "Oh, there's a card, and now I have a huge edge."
27:14
And you're not doing anything to get the dealer to show you. You know, you're just sitting there. It's like, "Oh, I can see this thing." Just their mechanics, in other words. Just, yeah, yeah.
27:22
What, so what would you estimate is the ratio of dealers out there, one in how many were you able to discover, "Oh, this is someone whose hole card I can see"? Yeah, I would say one in, one in 300, one in 250.
27:37
It's a lot of scouting. It is a lot of walking around. So your life is just going around casinos, seeing and, and spotting someone, and then just milking that? For many years, I had no other life than scouting casinos.
27:50
And there were other opportunities, it wasn't just that, but yeah, I'd had no social life for, I don't know, a decade at least. A decade. Yeah. So at, okay, so let me just follow, follow suit here.
28:02
So then at some point you went from Gina solo to a team. Did you make the assessment that your profile, right? Mm-hmm. Meaning your, w- the profile as the casino sees you- Mm-hmm...
28:18
uh, was not going to be as lucrative as if you, it recruited others? Uh, definitely.
28:25
Me being me, I can get away, I could have gotten away, and I don't do this anymore, I just bet sports, but I could have gotten away with a lot because,
28:34
and just honestly, floormen or people working in the casino don't look at me and think I'm sharp. They just don't.
28:40
So I can just, you know, see the hole card, bet my table minimum, and signal someone else, my, you know, Asian woman or my older white guy wearing a Tommy Bahama.
28:50
Like, I can signal someone else to bet the money, and so- Mm-hmm... that keeps my profile, you know, very, very low, very anonymous. And people should know, I, I feel the need to interject.
29:00
People should know you are not doing the profiling there. You are actually reflecting what a casino actually has as a prejudice. Right. Well- Yeah... oh, yeah, as far as... And, and I would play it up, you know?
29:10
My best thing, I would get, like, a, a 13, and then I'd hit and I'd get a three, and I'd say, like, "14, 16." [laughs] And it gets them every time. It- It gets them every time- 16, 17...
29:20
and they're just like, "There's no way that this person is doing anything," so they just wouldn't, wouldn't assume that I was sharp.
29:27
Uh, it's an amazing story because it becomes so, so big and so lucrative, or, or, uh, you know, that you end up not only doing it, you know, by ground, you end up flying different places, you end up having an experience.
29:42
I was doing... By the way, the easiest person to research in the world is Gina because there's so much on her, and we'll get to all the stuff that's available, including a documentary on her, on her life as a gambler.
29:52
But one, one, you know, famous incident is y'all won a bunch of money- Mm-hmm... in Puerto Rico, I believe- Mm-hmm... it was, in Puerto Rico. You fly back. Or, well, like, go through the circumstance. How did it happen?
30:04
Yeah, so we were on a... I was with one partner, and we were on a trip, well, a work trip, and we went from Las Vegas to Atlantic City to Puerto Rico, and we're playing blackjack everywhere.
30:14
So in Puerto Rico, I just had a random bag search from TSA, and they saw that I had $30,000 in my bag, and they said-- And it was a lot, and they were like, you know, "What is this?"
30:24
And I said, "I was playing in the casino." And they said, uh, "Don't be surprised if someone in Las Vegas stops to talk to you, stops you to talk to you."
30:33
Okay, so I'm, I'm on the plane taking off, and I send a text to s- to another partner to call, uh, Bob Nersesian, who is a- Big time...
30:42
a big time, uh, civil attorney for a lot of gamblers when gamblers' rights are, you know... Gamblers' rights. So, uh, we had a stop in Atlanta.
30:51
We get off the plane, and two minutes later, we're surrounded by DEA agents, just surrounded, and they've got the dogs, and you've got the, uh, the DEA agents, like, uh, look like travelers.
31:03
You know, they got the backpacks and they're- Sure... they look like civilians. And so they surround us, and they check our bags, and my partner had another 65K, so we have, like, $97,000. "Where'd you get the money?
31:13
What were you doing?" And so we were ver- I was very honest. We were gambling. And I used to keep, uh, records, like, just perfect records. I was like, "We were in Puerto Rico. We were in Las Vegas."
31:23
Or sorry, "We were in Atlantic City." Like, you know, everything. They were gonna take our money, no matter what. They said, "The dog got a hit." I'm like, "The dog is sleeping.
31:31
The dog- [laughs] "Nothing happened to the dog." The dog got a hit. They take- It's all just unaware. Yeah. They take- Yeah... all of our money, 97,000. I mean, every dollar we had, just took it all.
31:40
So we flew to Las Vegas. Bob was at the gate waiting for us, and then it was, uh... He filed something immediately to get the money back, you know, on our tax returns, professional gambler.
31:50
I've been filing as a pro for two decades at this point.
31:54
So yeah, so we filed something, and they wouldn't give the money back, and it was eight months before we got the money back, and it was the, the eighth month they said, "If you sign something that you won't sue, we'll give you the money back."
32:04
And I was like, "Absolutely not." Like, "It's not happening." Good for you. Yeah. Like, "You violated our rights." So we got the money back.
32:11
'Cause you had had some previous experience here in town where you regretted not going after it, I remember- Right... hearing you out. I was backroomed in a casino- Yeah...
32:17
for four hours, and the-- I called, I was the one who called the police. The police came in, kept us there for four hours, and taunted us. And so I- Wow... I did sue.
32:26
I sued the casino, and I sued, uh, Metro, and we ended up settling. So here we were, and I wanted to prove a point, because civil asset forfeiture is a big deal. It's a huge deal.
32:35
Like, they will take your money and make you prove that it's yours. So we ended up suing the DEA agent, um, for, because you can't sue the DEA, and we sued him in Georgia.
32:46
I'm sorry, we sued him in Nevada, where we felt, uh, there was-- Nevada had the burden. We couldn't spend our money here.
32:53
The crime happened in Georgia, but we felt Nevada was the, the state that experienced this, this outcome.
33:00
And so it was appeal, appeal, appeal, and the Ninth Circuit said, "Yeah, you can sue in Nevada," because he wanted us to sue in Georgia. So he appealed to the Supreme Court of the United States, and they took the case.
33:11
Wow. Yeah. It was eight years of appeals and back and forth. So we went to SCOTUS in 2014, and the argument was over jurisdiction, where can you sue if a crime happens?
33:24
And we lost, and so he won, and we had to sue in Georgia. But the thing is, it set a precedent in this country for jurisdiction, for personal jurisdiction.
33:33
So now I've run into a lot of lawyers who say, "Oh, we had to study your SCOTUS case." That i- that alone is awesome. It's, it is, but we wanted to set a precedent. It wasn't about the money.
33:42
We weren't going to make money. It was a precedent to say, "Not only can you not do this, but we have to make it hard for you." Like, "You can't do this anywhere. Now we have to fight you over there."
33:51
Like, "We should be able to fight you in our home state." Hold that thought. Yeah. We'll continue this, but I wanna get to all the things that, uh, you're doing, including MasterClass. Gina Fiore on A Numbers Game.
34:00
Coming back. A Numbers Game on VSiN, the sports betting network. Coming up at the top of the hour after A Numbers Game, Money Moves with Stormy Bonatony.
34:14
Stormy's got Patrick Maher in with her today, or not in, but on the show with her today from noon to 2:00 Eastern, followed by Prop Points with Jon Hansen from 2:00 to 3:00, and then Adam Shine with Make It Rain.
34:25
Awards voter Adam Shine from 3:00 to 4:00 right here on VSiN, the sports betting network. Uh, which brings us to our gbank Best Bets of the Day. Gbank, the official bank of VSiN. Um, a bevy from, uh, guests.
34:37
My only one is, uh, I'm still on the Commanders, the Commodores, plus three and a half versus the Eagles on Sunday. I got off that Browns bet. Uh, Kelly is still on the Browns bet, but he's trying to get off it as well.
34:48
He's got the Browns plus seven versus the Bengals. DTR going for the Browns behind center, and then he's on the Giants-Falcons under 42, Michael Penix getting his first start for the Atlanta Falcons. JBT was on earlier.
35:01
He's got, uh, one in the NFL, one in college football. College football, he's on Tennessee-Ohio State, the under 47 and a half as the college football playoff begin, and he's on the Panthers.
35:09
He has been on the Panthers for six straight weeks. Uh, he is, uh, riding them again, plus four and a half. He was off them this past week. He faded them this past week.
35:18
Matt Cox, Matty Cox with only one college basketball play. He's on Youngstown State plus the seven points. Uh, and then Jason Weingarten on his way out, he did the old Columbo bet. He's like, "Oh yeah, one more thing."
35:29
Uh, he is on the, uh, Denver Broncos taking the three points against the Los Angeles Chargers. Gbank, once again, the official bank of VSiN each and every day on the show, each and every show on the network.
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36:10
Skill Alexander, uh, Gina Fiore, kind enough to hang with us for a, a second segment here on A Numbers Game. Just wanna wrap up, uh, your story because- Yeah... you have so mu- we have so much else to talk about.
36:21
Ultimately, though They won? You said you settled, I thought. Uh, so we settled versus Metro and the casino- Gotcha... that backroomed me. Um, as far as, uh, the DEA agent, they won jurisdiction.
36:35
So now if we wanted to take it further, we had to sue in Georgia. And now it's eight years after, you know, we had our money seized, and I do regret this, but we let it go.
36:47
It was like, if we sued in Georgia, it would be a whole thing. At some point you have to though, right? Yeah. Like, you have to move on. It was, it was just to prove a point.
36:56
It was just to prove a point and, and yeah, we let it, we let it go. Um, and then, okay, this begs the question then.
37:03
By the way, your, your entire, this entire sort of life that Gina led, uh, as an advantage player is represented in the documentary, which is called? Miss- It's called Miss Brown. Miss Brown. Yeah.
37:15
Which is the name you took all these years when you were doing this? Yeah, that's the name I used on, like, blackjack message boards, and then in the blackjack world, they still call me Miss Brown or MB.
37:26
That's how people refer to me. By the way, Gina's, uh, Twitter is @RXGamble, like the prescription, RX Gamble. There's a shot of, uh, Miss Brown winning against the house, uh, the documentary based on her life.
37:39
Now, is that... Can I ask you a question? Mm. Is that you or the actress that plays you? No, that's... So that's me. That's you. Yeah. Okay, 'cause the actress who plays you favors you, right?
37:49
Like, you guys look quite a bit alike. Yeah, they f- they, uh, casted that amazingly. Yeah. Yeah. What is her name? Her name's Christina, the actress. Christina, okay. Christina Brauh.
37:58
So if people wanna get that, what's the easiest way for them? To go to your Twitter maybe? Is there a link there to that? No, so it's a series by Meadowlark Media. Okay.
38:06
They made a series called Sports Explains the World. I think it's 16 episodes, and it was sort of like a 30 for 30 sort of thing. Um, you know, the president of ESPN went over to Meadowlark Media.
38:19
So he created the series- John Skipper? Yes, exactly. Yeah. Mm-hmm. He created the series. They're all done. They're all in the can. I've seen a couple of them. They're great, and they haven't sold the series yet.
38:30
So you, you can see the trailer online. There's a link on my website, but you can't watch the documentary unfortunately. Can't watch the documentary? No. Okay. No. All right. Not yet, not yet. All right.
38:41
Well, there are some things you can get here. Um, well, we'll get to that. How did you transition then? 'Cause everybody who listens to this show bets on sports. Some also bet in the casino- Mm-hmm...
38:51
or the, in the, in the gaming tables. Uh, how did you transition to sports betting? What was, what was the point in your life where you're like, "You know what? This was a great thing in my life- Mm-hmm...
39:00
um, but I don't wanna do this anymore"? Yeah. Um, it's...
39:03
I have always had friends who bet professionally because there is crossover, but I was too busy doing other things, and then I was pregnant, and I didn't wanna be in the casino for the secondhand smoke.
39:15
I just didn't wanna be around it. I actually got a mask at the time, and I was the only person, uh, 'cause it was not- You were that person. It was- Yeah... it was that. Yeah. It was before COVID.
39:24
So, um, so I was, I was betting someone else's stuff at home while I was pregnant, and then I just...
39:30
When you're in the casino playing, you're scouting for new opportunities, like always, not just counting or hole carding. You're looking for everything.
39:36
So I was on these websites, 2015, so this was all, like, you know, bookie stuff, and I'm looking at every betting menu, and I'm just trying to find things. And so I found a lot of live baseball that was off.
39:48
It was just severely off from Pinnacle. So I would just sit there pregnant, [laughs] betting live baseball totals and, uh, and yeah, it lasted for two seasons, so when I was pregnant and then when my son was a baby.
40:00
So I did that for two seasons, and it introduced me- You're, you're holding your son betting baseball. Sometimes I was holding my son betting baseball. I love that. Yeah. [laughs] It's awesome. Yeah.
40:09
Um, and so you have do- you have been a sports bettor now for all these years. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you end up, we all know Captain Jack and Rufus, our buddies- Mm-hmm... uh, who co-founded Unabated- Mm-hmm...
40:20
and you work at Unabated now. Yeah, I, I do some content for Unabated. I, I joined the site because I've been friends with Captain Jack for over 20 years. Wow.
40:30
We were on the blackjack message boards together, and if you know Captain Jack, he's on Twitter or he's on Discord, the Unabated Discord, answering everyone's questions. He's amazing. He's amazing.
40:40
He was doing this 20 years ago. He's the commissioner of sports betting. Yes. You had a blackjack question 20 years ago, and he was, you know, on the blackjack forums answering questions. It's in his bio.
40:49
Uh, it said he was the commissioner of sports betting. Yeah. Yeah, it is. That's right. Yeah. But, um, so I joined Unabated with the idea that I have a lot of knowledge about gambling. Like, I do.
40:58
I, I, I understand the mechanics of gambling, and I thought I could explain sports betting to, uh, an audience that's less educated than who Captain Jack speaks to. Gotcha.
41:11
Because he kinda speaks to the middle-of-the-road gambler and above, or sports bettor, and I thought, "I can get to those people who, who don't know much." And you do a podcast now. I was doing a podcast for Unabated.
41:23
Um, yeah, and I wrote some articles and, yeah, I kinda, I've been bouncing around. We're, we're sort of trying to figure out what the best, the best way to reach those bettors is.
41:36
Well, you know, when I told Bill Adee, who just walked in here- Yeah... when I told him you were coming on, his, his immediate response was, "She's a great writer." Mm. Which, by the way- Thanks...
41:45
at ginafiori.com- Mm-hmm... your blog, it is really, you really are a great writer. Oh, thanks. So that's a, that's a huge thing that people can also resource from you. So, um, here's the thing then.
41:57
You are now doing a masterclass. Yeah. People know this from...
42:00
You may know it if, like, you have a Facebook, it pops, Facebook account, it'll pop up, you know, Malcolm Gladwell on writing or, uh, Michael Lewis on storytelling. Mm-hmm.
42:09
You are doing, along with a bunch of others, including Rufus and Jack- Mm-hmm... um, a masterclass on sports betting. Right. How was, how great has that experience been?
42:18
It was a, it was a great experience, but let's be honest, I've been, you know, betting for nine years. So I'm not gonna call myself a master sports bettor, but that wasn't what they did.
42:28
They did an hour and 10 minutes, and it's, it really is the basics. It's really like people are just losing so much money. So much. They're getting crushed. So it was a very basic, this is the mechanics of sports books.
42:42
This is how it works. This is price discovery. This is the vig. This is a money line. It starts with that.
42:49
This is so-- But by the way, this is so great because there's so many bettors who are new, new-ish, and by the way, even for, for all of us, right?
42:55
Like all of this stuff is great too, but I wish when we started sports betting- Mm... so many decades ago, I wish there was a resource like this. Yeah. Yeah. We-- And they can go to RX Gamble and, and access Masterclass?
43:06
So they can, they can go to my website, ginafiore.com, and there's a link for Masterclass, or you can just go to masterclass.com, and I think- Okay... they advertise it. And, uh,
43:16
and yeah, it's not-- I wanna say it's not, it's not for the professional. You know all this stuff. But even the bettor that's maybe been betting a year, they might not understand price discovery. They just might not.
43:27
Um, you know what? I actually had the thought that the audience that watches Masterclass would probably watch this and send it to their 22-year-old son- Yes. Yes...
43:37
who's been betting like eight-leg parlays during Thanksgiving, and they might just send it over and be like, "Oh, you might wanna watch this." One last thing before we go because we only have a minute. Mm-hmm.
43:45
You have a calendar. I do. I do. I have a calendar. 365 days- Mm-hmm... of gambling. Yes. Uh, what was the epiphany here? You just decided, you know, you were looking for one and you- I was... and it didn't exist.
43:55
I was looking for one last year, and it didn't exist, and I've, I'm doing a lot of creative projects like the documentary. I'm writing a TV show, a, a drama, and, uh, and nothing-- Everything's slow.
44:06
So I knew I could do this. I'm like, "I can do a calendar. I can do this." So I did this calendar, and it's got 365 different things, casino history, uh, gambling trivia, quotes. I'll give, I'll give an example.
44:17
Uh, August 26th, 2025, United States President Richard Nixon used poker winnings to help finance his first congressional campaign. Yeah. And other tidbits like that, one for every day of the year.
44:26
Yeah, and I, I verified everything three times, so yeah. How long did it take you to do it? God, it took me so long. [laughs] It took me dozens of hours. Oh, poor- It took me a very long time...
44:36
she's shaking when she's done it. Yeah. Uh, and they can go to? They can go to my website, and there's a link, or they can go to 365daysofgambling.com, so either my website or 365- All right... Days of Gambling.
44:48
Stormy's next. Enjoy from Visa then-
A Numbers Game
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